July 15, 2012
"youkarou"?
In the second episode of Dog Days 2, at 03:30, Leo says something that sounds to me like
youkarou. It means "alright, yes, I accept". What is the word or phrase? I can't find it in the dictionary.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Japanese at
08:36 AM
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No idea on etimology of it, but I'm pretty sure that "yo" is short in "yokaro". I thought it was a cousin of "-daro".
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at July 15, 2012 10:27 AM (5OBKC)
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Yokarou, a variation of "yoi darou"; "(we) might as well" is used as a translation in the Tanaka corpus, which sounds better than the literal "I suppose it's good".
-j
Posted by: J Greely at July 15, 2012 10:40 AM (2XtN5)
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I just remembered another place I'd encountered that. It was at the beginning of DBZ, when Goku and Piccolo are about to fight Raditz. And Raditz says it. J, your meaning makes sense in that case, too.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 15, 2012 01:50 PM (+rSRq)
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July 05, 2012
Mangajin
Some of you might find this useful: Mangajin
Mangajin was created in the early 90's as a monthly English publication for students of the Japanese language. Unlike most text books that focused solely on teaching people Japanese through boring text, Mangajin was different in that it focused on showing readers a page of manga and then a page of English translations. As great of an idea that this sounds today, it didn't catch on in the 90's and Mangajin ended in 1996. Now manga in America is as popular as ever, which is why I have decided to put Mangajin onto this web site. Fans of Japanese manga and who are looking to learn Japanese will undoubtedly find Mangajin very useful!
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Japanese at
09:26 PM
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Hey! I
remember Mangajin!
I used to get it from the big bookstores by the places I worked in the 90s--and then from the comic store I got my manga from after I started collecting manga.
That's where I learned about
Yawara!,
OL Shinkaron,
Maison Ikkoku, and a bunch of others.
Thanks for that link. I know where my weekend is going!
Posted by: atomic_fungus at July 06, 2012 09:35 AM (X4WqB)
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I remember it too, and still have a lot of the issues. Even after the paper magazine ceased, the publishers kept the website going for a few years, selling back issues and Japanese products they'd reviewed (like Jikan de Gozeru, an alarm clock shaped like a monkey).
Posted by: muon at July 18, 2012 10:39 PM (JXm2R)
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June 10, 2012
Marika's wham line
Let's be clear; I like the translation: "If you want a fight, you've got one!"
But I have a suspicion that the translator took some liberties with that, and I find myself wondering just what Marika really said. Especially since it was the line they used for the calligraphy which is always at the end of each episode.
Listening to her, it sounds like she's saying "kono kenka, katawa".
With that and the calligraphy, I get this:
ã“ ã®
ケ ン カ
?? ãŸã‚
kono (this)
kenka (fight, brawl),
something ta wa.
It's not a topic wa; that's printed as ã¯.
It could be kaatawa or kattawa. The first syllable sounds long to me. But I can't make any sense of it, using the dictionary, and I can't figure out what the kanji is from the calligraphy. I can't find a kanji that looks anything like that.
片端 katawa is a word; it means "crippled" or "deformed". (That's the one in Katawa Shoujo.) But that's not what she's saying.
æ–¹ kata means "method of" or "manner of" and if that was it, the whole thing could be read as "This is the way we fight." But it isn't; that's not the kanji they're using. (Besides, what is the "wa"? It sure as hell isn't a feminine softener!)
There isn't any word that begins kaata. There isn't any word that makes sense that begins katta.
So I'm totally stumped. What is it?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Japanese at
01:09 PM
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Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at June 10, 2012 01:13 PM (5OBKC)
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I don't know if it's obvious, but yes, it's "katta".
kenka wo uru (Sell a fight) means to pick a fight, and kenka wo kau (Buy a fight) means to accept a challenge to a fight.
Posted by: tellu541 at June 10, 2012 01:29 PM (q5Mzl)
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katta is a conjugation of kau "to buy"? What verb tense is that? Imperative?
The trailing wa is an intensifier?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at June 10, 2012 01:35 PM (+rSRq)
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Past tense. And that's correct about wa.
Posted by: tellu541 at June 10, 2012 01:42 PM (q5Mzl)
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It was not quite obvious, but obviously I had my Kinsley moment, here.
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at June 10, 2012 01:58 PM (5OBKC)
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That boxed kanji in the lower right corner appears to be "dragon", which is the only one I know.
Posted by: at June 10, 2012 02:20 PM (L1IVj)
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Usually in calligraphy, the box contains the signature of the calligrapher.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at June 10, 2012 02:49 PM (+rSRq)
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For whatever it's worth, I added "If you want a fight, you've got one" to the TVTropes page yesterday, as a "wham line".
Because it sure rocked me back a bit when she said it.
The way nearly all the episodes seem to end on cliffhangers makes me think that this show will work particularly well when mainlined, in another month or so. A lot of the complaints from people that it moves slowly won't really apply when you can watch four or six (or eight or twenty) episodes in close succession.
As we watch it week-by-week, it makes every week seem long until I can watch the next episode.
I see from the ANN page that Sentai has licensed this. I wonder when it'll start coming out in North America?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at June 10, 2012 02:54 PM (+rSRq)
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I just ordered the premium versions of all the remaining BDs. BD 4 just became available a couple of days ago. The others stretch out and the last one comes out in September.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at June 10, 2012 03:20 PM (+rSRq)
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Are the BDs Japanese-only? CDJapan doesn't have them listed with the "english subtitles" marker.
Posted by: Mikeski at June 10, 2012 08:50 PM (1bPWv)
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Yeah, they're Japanese-only. I'm not getting them because they're really of much use to me. I'm getting them to encourage a sequel.
I've bought quite a few Japanese BDs now, and Dog Days was the only series to include English subtitles.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at June 10, 2012 09:17 PM (+rSRq)
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Just in case you guys missed it, Omo received a signage by Tatsuo Sato at AX, in person, of course, and it has the same signature. URL: http://yfrog.com/nx2xrcbj
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at July 03, 2012 04:44 PM (5OBKC)
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That's not surprising. The signatures are of the humans who did the calligraphy, not the characters who read the line in the show.
In at least one case I looked at, the line was Marika, and the calligraphy was signed by Mikako Komatsu, her seiyuu, who apparently also wrote it.
But it looks like Sato did most of them.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 03, 2012 04:51 PM (+rSRq)
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June 08, 2012
Now which syllable is it that you drop?
I just noticed that Grunhilde in Mouretsu Pirates pronounces a word differently than I expected.
Being princesses, both Grunhilde and Gruier use watakushi. Usually that word is pronounced wah-tahk-shee. Grunhilde pronounces it wah-tah-koosh.
Or at least in one case she does, ep 15 06:20. She's using it with -tachi because she's talking about both her and Gruier. So it's wah-tah-koosh-tah-chee. Maybe that's the reason why; wah-tahk-shee-tah-chee seems like it's more difficult to pronounce.
Or is it a deliberate affectation by the voice actress? Or is it an attempt to make watakushi not sound like watashi?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Japanese at
09:47 PM
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I think your first guess is right. It's purely a matter of what is easier to pronounce. (Subject to the understandability rule that for any leading consonant there is only one vowel that may be dropped,)
Posted by: Jonathan Tappan at June 09, 2012 05:37 AM (poC8e)
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Interesting. Gruier uses wah-tah-koosh-tah-chee in ep 23. I know that without the pluralizer she says wah-tahk-shee.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at June 09, 2012 04:20 PM (+rSRq)
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In fact, later in that same conversation she says wah-tahk-shee. I guess the pluralizer changes the pronunciation.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at June 09, 2012 04:44 PM (+rSRq)
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May 02, 2012
Magic Burger Crystals
This video is quite fascinating to watch. It's a product from Japan, containing various plastic parts plus a bunch of foil pouches full of crystals. If you follow the instructions, you end up with a microscopic burger-and-fries meal. Everything you need is in it, including tools and dishes. The only thing you have to provide is a pair of scissors to cut everything apart, and to open the pouches, and a few pieces of cellophane tape.
The video shows the process from beginning to end.
It's apparently edible, though I can't imagine that it's very filling. And all the cooking is done in low-power microwave ovens. (Does anyone really make a 500 watt microwave oven?)
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Japanese at
08:12 AM
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That is so...
I cant even...
..and yet...
I find I sort of want them to market burger crystals 'cause I kind of want to try just the burger.
Posted by: The Brickmuppet at May 02, 2012 12:24 PM (EJaOX)
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It looks like the kind of thing it would be fun to do once, just because. I wonder if JList sells them?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at May 02, 2012 01:16 PM (+rSRq)
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Of course they do. Peter knows his customers. It's right at the front page as of this time, possibly trying to cash in on the viral video.
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at May 02, 2012 02:26 PM (5OBKC)
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IIRC, the first time I saw that video was on j-list's facebook page. They sell it, along with similar ones for making cookies and doughnuts. there's even a sushi candy kit.
Posted by: muon at May 02, 2012 06:48 PM (JXm2R)
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April 18, 2012
Translation problems
I think the most difficult common word for subtitlers to translate must be sasuga. There isn't any single word in English with that meaning. There isn't anything even close, yet it gets used all the time in anime.
"Living up to our high expectations" is about what it means, but that's way too clumsy for normal use. "Just what we expect from..." is how it's often translated, but that feels stilted in English.
I noticed that in Mouretsu Pirates ep 15, at one point the translator made it "Way to go!" And that's really good. It obviously isn't literal, but that's about what Hyakume was thinking when he said it. (At 20:04.)
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Japanese at
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That's the way to go in translations, sometimes. You don't translate what they say, but what they
mean. "Know the story; know the characters" is one of my mantras.
Posted by: Toren at April 18, 2012 02:07 PM (aq2MN)
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When it comes to
sasuga I've always thought "As expected..." was a good way to translate it in most circumstances.
...depending on those circumstances, of course. But that's true of translating any language.
Posted by: atomic_fungus at April 18, 2012 02:23 PM (vq4t5)
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The problem with "As expected" is that in English that can be praise, but it can also be snide. But I think that
sasuga is always praise.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at April 18, 2012 03:17 PM (+rSRq)
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I've heard some non-praising sasuga; the first one that comes to mind is the line "hayari no umi wa sasuga hito darake", roughly "the fashionable beach was, as expected, really crowded". (darake itself is generally negative, but not always)
-j
Posted by: J Greely at April 18, 2012 04:31 PM (fpXGN)
5
Not
always, but you have to lay the sarcasm on pretty thick with that term.
"Way to go" is a good way to translate the normal sense of the word. But a lot of it depends on the tone of the speaker. A more literal meaning would be better from someone who otherwise speaks very formally (and from such a person, the slightly-stilted effect ought to fit right in with the rest of their speech), and something like "way to go!" is perfect for an informal speaker.
Posted by: Avatar_exADV at April 18, 2012 04:43 PM (pWQz4)
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Aww, thanks.
Yeah sasuga is one of those terms that just sounds horrible translated literally. It sounds stilted and awkwards most of the time.
Posted by: tellu541 at April 19, 2012 01:35 AM (Nu03Y)
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I have a feeling that the opposite to "sasuga" was discussed at Chizumatic 5 years ago. "Yappari" was brought up as "living down to it" equivalent. Time flies!
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at April 19, 2012 09:59 PM (5OBKC)
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I can't pick out many Japanese words on the subs I watch, but I do notice that I frequently see the phrase "As expected from (character name)" or "as expected of..." rather frequently. I'll have to keep my ears open for that word...
Posted by: Tex Lovera at April 20, 2012 03:17 PM (DvLEA)
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The other Japanese construction which is painful to translate is the -tachi particle. A lot of English translators have settled on "and them" for that, which I always hate. At the very least I'd like "and the others" or "and the rest", if they can't come up with anything else. I know it's longer, but no English speaker says "and them".
Sasuga and -tachi are probably responsible for more stilted English in translations than anything else.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at April 20, 2012 06:16 PM (+rSRq)
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I'd add the
attributive form to the list of things that frequently produce stilted translations; it can produce literal translations like "there's a song that only the me who selected one from there can sing" (
Hana no na, by Bump Of Chicken; fansubs for this song are either hilarious, confused, or both).
-j
Posted by: J Greely at April 20, 2012 06:27 PM (fpXGN)
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"...no English speaker says "and them"."
Some older people in the southeast do. Jeff Foxworthy's made mention of it. Sasuga Redneck-san.
"And company" might be better, though.
Posted by: jcm3 at April 21, 2012 11:14 AM (OU30d)
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March 30, 2012
Japanese: renshuu
There's a word I've heard a bunch of times, which sounds like renshuu. It's used to refer to a group of students at a school. Is it 連衆? (which would mean "group of people"?)
ç·´ç¿’ is pronounced renshuu but it means "practice". (renshuusei means "student", but that's not what they're saying.)
Just for reference, I just encountered it in Mouretsu Pirates ep 4, at about 14:45.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Japanese at
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She said "練習航海" ("renshuu koukai"): "practice cruise".
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at March 30, 2012 08:14 PM (5OBKC)
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OK, Railgun ep 3, 17:40
"kore dakara Tokiwadai no renshuu wa"
They translated it to "This is why I hate you Tokiwadai people". Which renshuu was this one?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at March 30, 2012 08:50 PM (+rSRq)
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I found a site that had a working stream, and she says "renchuu": é€£ä¸ = "colleagues; company; a lot; those guys".
-j
Posted by: J Greely at March 30, 2012 10:55 PM (2XtN5)
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OK, I can believe that. Thanks.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at March 31, 2012 05:36 AM (+rSRq)
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March 07, 2012
Japanese -- It's not fair!
There's a word I've heard a couple of times that I can't find in the dictionary. One example is ep 9 of Mouretsu Pirates at 11:30. Another case is ep 3 of Railgun at 06:40.
It sounds like "surui" and it means something like "unfair". But I can't find it in the dictionary. What is it?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Japanese at
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Posted by: Jordi Vermeulen at March 07, 2012 10:09 PM (AJZdn)
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Hmmm. That doesn't really seem right, at least for when Uiharu used it.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at March 07, 2012 11:09 PM (+rSRq)
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Not having the context, I can't speak for Uiharu, but Marika is definitely saying "zurui". My big dictionary has two separate meanings: "sly; cunning; crafty; foxy; slick" and "unfair; foul; dishonest". One of the examples given is "zurui koto wo shite katsu" = "to win unfairly". A related word is "zuru-yasumi" = "truancy; playing hooky".
-j
Posted by: J Greely at March 07, 2012 11:56 PM (2XtN5)
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I cannot distinguish those sounds. Always thought it was "tsurui".
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at March 08, 2012 09:21 AM (5OBKC)
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Ep 3 of Railgun has Saten and Uiharu visiting the Gardens of Education, the neighborhood where Tokiwadai Middle School is located. Academy City is a police state, of course, and access to the Gardens of Education is strictly limited. The only reason that Saten and Uiharu are permitted to visit is that Kuroko invited them. (I don't think it was "Kuroko, member of Judgement"; I think it was just "Kuroko, attendee of Tokiwadai Middle School".)
The four of them are going to visit a particular Italian bakery to get dessert. But on the way, Saten slips and falls in a puddle and gets soaked.
So Kuroko loans Saten a set of her own clothing, i.e. a Tokiwadai uniform. Uiharu is a fangrrl; it's a running joke that she idolizes rich girls, including pretty much everyone in Tokiwadai. After Saten has finished changing, Uiharu sulks a bit and says, "It's not fair. Saten gets to wear a Tokiwadai uniform and I don't."
That's where she used the word.
My mnemonic summary of ep 3 is "Eyebrow girl", just in case you don't remember it very well. And it was the fact that she was wearing a Tokiwadai uniform that got Saten attacked.
Thanks, all; I'm going to add zurui to my "Next Hundred".
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at March 08, 2012 10:02 AM (+rSRq)
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I also submitted an update to JMdict with the "unfair" meaning; GG4 is a standard reference, so they should accept it without much debate.
-j
Posted by: J Greely at March 08, 2012 10:22 AM (2XtN5)
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February 22, 2012
I'm very sorry
There's a phrase which is a very formal and abject apology which sounds to me like it's moshi wa ke arimasen but that's almost certainly not correct. One example of it is ep 11 of Daimaou at 18:44 (BD rip).
What is it?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Japanese at
09:34 AM
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It is indeed a very formal apology.
http://rut.org/cgi-bin/j-e/dosearch?sDict=on&H=PS&L=J&T=moshiwakearimasen&WC=none&FG=r&BG=b&S=26
"Wake" is a nebulous word that sort of means "situation", "circumstance", "what we're talking about". Also seen in phrases like "Sono wake ja nai!" ("that's not right/the case at all!"), frequently shouted by embarrassed haremettes.
Posted by: AlexG at February 22, 2012 09:48 AM (JDk7J)
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申ã—訳ã™ã‚‹ ("moushiwake suru") means "say apologies". So, "moushiwake ga arimasen" means "there are no words of apology" literally, but actually means that there are no adequate words of apology for such an eggregious fault.
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at February 22, 2012 09:51 AM (G2mwb)
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Thanks! I missed that the first syllable was long. With that knowledge, I found it
in the dictionary.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at February 22, 2012 10:07 AM (+rSRq)
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Odd that the dictionary uses it with Arimasen, instead of the more formal Gozaimasen.
What's next? Moshiwake ja nai, yo!
Posted by: Mauser at February 24, 2012 02:02 AM (cZPoz)
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February 21, 2012
Just a thought
Think maybe that the reason for "Measurement day" is to aggregate all the numbers so that the stores can stock the proper amounts of various sizes of school uniforms?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Japanese at
10:14 AM
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Do they measure boys also?
Posted by: Siergen at February 21, 2012 02:57 PM (3/gGt)
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Yes, they measure the boys as well; it just shows up less in the sort of anime we watch.
Search for å¦æ ¡ä¿å¥çµ±è¨ˆèª¿æŸ» (School Health Examination Survey), and you can find some of the data, such as
this spreadsheet breaking down height and weight by grade over 1995-2010.
-j
Posted by: J Greely at February 21, 2012 03:22 PM (2XtN5)
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at February 21, 2012 03:22 PM (+rSRq)
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