July 11, 2016
Oh my aching bones and white hair
How many of you have ever even heard of TECO? Know what it is? Know how to use it?
For extra credit, what does the name mean?
UPDATE: And for extra extra credit, what command do you use to get out of it if you get into it by mistake?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Computers at
03:26 PM
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1
I used a TECO-based Emacs on a Twenex system back in the day, but never got below the hood.
-j
Posted by: J Greely at July 11, 2016 04:04 PM (ZlYZd)
2
I know this one! It's an old text editor! I was told that it was an acronym for "Text Editor and COrrector", but that appears to be something of a backronym instead.
I only know about it because in the basement of the Duck U Science Building, there was a display of old tech stuff... 8" floppy disks, vacuum tubes, a very very old hard drive indeed, about the size of a standard suitcase, and instruction manuals for a number of old languages. TECO was one of them.
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 11, 2016 04:06 PM (Hdexn)
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 11, 2016 05:00 PM (+rSRq)
4
Wonderduck, you're right about all that. It makes me even sadder to know that you only learned about it from a museum exhibit of obsolete equipment and programs. (Sob)
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 11, 2016 05:05 PM (+rSRq)
5
While I did use Trash-80 a little bit a long time ago (Radio Shack TRS-80 personal computer, for those of a certain age.), and Apple II even more, the first computer I spent any length of time on was the Commodore 64 and later, the Commodore 128. That was back when the disk drive was a separate, necessary, and expensive accessory - but at least the Commodore could plug right into your home TV.
Posted by: cxt217 at July 11, 2016 05:22 PM (DuUoO)
6
cxt, I had me a TRS-80 mod III with 16K of RAM. Eventually I bought a C64 w/ disk drive from a friend for, like, $50. 1984 or thereabouts... M.U.L.E. before school!
Posted by: Wonderduck at July 11, 2016 08:48 PM (Hdexn)
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C-64+1541 disk drive.
Then, we got a C-128D... the one with the built-in disk drive!
First commercial program: Gunship! (followed by most of the early Microprose sims, most of which I would still play today if I could).
The only mainframe text editors I ever used were elm and pico, for the early days of E-Mail at college.
Posted by: BigD at July 11, 2016 09:27 PM (VKO9N)
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I used TECO, not a fan.
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at July 12, 2016 08:18 AM (x/Yak)
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Let me see if I can remember it...
LOAD"*",8,1
Yup, still remember it. I kept the 1541 disk drive after I upgraded from a C64 to C128.
What was impressive was that the C64 had, by the standards of the time, a rather flexible and capable sound chip. If the programmer was clever enough, you could get a game with impressive audio - like the games of Muse Software such as Castle Wolfenstein, and Microprose's Kennedy Approach.
I actually found a PC version of Red Storm Rising so I could continue playing the game when I moved to PC. Good times.
Posted by: cxt217 at July 12, 2016 12:17 PM (DuUoO)
10
I used TECO in the 1970s. In fact, the first email system I ever used, bananard, was actually a collection of TECO macros. I still have my TECO manual.
cover
title page
Posted by: mtrigoboff at September 02, 2016 09:51 AM (eBuUt)
Posted by: mtrigoboff at September 02, 2016 09:57 AM (eBuUt)
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July 10, 2016
USS Archerfish
In my never-ending search for cheesecake I ran into this
post. It doesn't really count as cheesecake but I thought it was noteworthy
anyway.

USS
Archerfish was an American submarine in the Pacific during WWII, and it is
particularly noteworthy because it sank IJN
Shinano.
Shinano was the third hull of the Yamato series. Yamato and Musashi
eventually became battleships but while Shinano was still in construction the
decision was made to turn her into an aircraft carrier. She was commissioned in
November 1944 and was being moved from Yokosuka to Kure when she was spotted by
Archerfish.
Archerfish stalked Shinano for six hours and finally achieved a nearly ideal
firing position. 4 out of 6 torpedoes hit, causing flooding which Shinano's
rookie crew could not stop. She eventually capsized and sank.
So I think it's pretty remarkable that this Japanese artist honors Archerfish
in this way, since although cartoony (and clearly based on KanColle) it's
really rather respectful.
I guess you could claim that they do the same with USS Iowa, but that's not
really the same. First off, Iowa is being drawn mostly as a fan service object.
Second, Iowa is a ship you can get in Kancolle. I don't think there are any
submarines in that game. (I could be wrong. There are no submarines in World Of Warships but there might well be some in KanColle. It's easy to get the two confused.)
That same post also includes a picture of USS
Albacore, which is noteworthy for having sunk IJN
Taihou during the battle of the Philippine Sea. Sadly, Albacore didn't
survive the war and was lost with all hands (the most common fate for an
American submarine). Her fate isn't known for certain but she probably struck a
mine.
Time heals wounds and I guess a modern Japanese can look back and honor a
gallant foe (by putting her in a stars-and-stripes bikini).
Other notes: CV-2 is the first USS Lexington, which was sunk at the Battle of
Coral Sea. CV-16 is the second USS Lexington, which survived the war. The
Japanese carrier they're shown fighting is Zuihou, which participated in Coral Sea and was sunk at Leyte Gulf by American carrier air strikes, including planes from the second Lexington.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Japanese at
12:32 PM
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Other notes: CV-2 is the first USS Lexington, which was sunk at the Battle of Coral Sea. CV-16 is the second USS Lexington, which survived the war. The Japanese carrier they're shown fighting is Zuihou, which participated in Coral Sea and was sunk at Leyte Gulf by American carrier air strikes, including planes from the second Lexington.
I presume that the Japanese carrier is suppose to be Zuikaku? Zuiho was not at Coral Sea but her sister ship Shoho (No, I do not play with the extra 'u' some romanizations add to Japanese words.) and the two big flattops of CarDiv 5 (Shoukaku and Zuikaku.) were.
Posted by: cxt217 at July 10, 2016 02:56 PM (DuUoO)
2
While I don't play Kancolle, I've seen enough on the image boards that I can say that they have several Japanese subs and 1 German sub (who oddly enough goes from vaguely German looking to vaguely Gangoro in her second form) in the game, but no American subs yet.
Albacore's design here comes from a similar smartphone Chinese game, Zhan Jian Shao Nyu (aka Warshp Girls) which has implemented an array of ships from a much wider number of countries.
Posted by: StargazerA5 at July 10, 2016 04:32 PM (5YSpE)
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I can believe that. I keep forgetting about that other game.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 10, 2016 07:45 PM (+rSRq)
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There are 10
submarines in Kancolle, including an army submersible transport and its upgrade, and four submarine aircraft carriers. (Never heard of those before.) You can get the "U-Country"
Archerfish in the Warship Girls game. The post looks like it's from a Chinese artist (no kana).
Posted by: muon at July 10, 2016 10:02 PM (IUHrD)
5
It looks like you're right. On the artist description page, the "self description" is written in Chinese.
That rather puts a hole in my thesis below the waterline, don't it?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 11, 2016 08:21 AM (+rSRq)
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July 09, 2016
Ange Vierge -- ep 01
I'm going to hold off on a real post about this, so just a quickie for now.
It's about â…“ Strike Witches, â…“ Petite Princess Yucie, and â…“ Pokemon, with lots and lots of nudity. About half the first episode was spent in bath scenes, all heavily censored with fog and rays of light, this being the MX version of the show. But it's also running on AT-X, so I'm going to wait until that shows up, if it does.
It's got a good voice cast, as it turns out. The basic concept: there are five worlds in five universes. One day something happened and opened a portal between the five worlds. At the same time it gave special powers some high school girls on each of the worlds. They've all collected together to fight a mysterious enemy called
Neuroi Oroboros. It seems like the Oroboros opened the gateways, and there seems to be a tendency for all the worlds to eventually merge, which will destroy them all.
There are two kinds of girls involved in this fight. First are "Progress", front line girls who actually engage in combat. Then there are "Alpha Drivers", who sit in the rear and bond with the Progress, giving them power boosts.
Which is to say that this is based on a collectible card game and the Progress are cards and the Alpha Driver is the player. In our case our Driver is Amane and she has five Progress working for her, one from each of the worlds.
So more on this after the AT-X version of the show appears.
UPDATE: I might have known that Fapservice would be all over this (
NSFW) and they say that it won't show up on AT-X for days, and it will still be censored. So I guess these are all Buy The BD's shots.
The most noteworthy thing for me was that Amane, the player surrogate, is voiced by Tamura Yukari, who does the voice of Nanoha Takamachi. She isn't actively trying to sound like Nanoha but she isn't trying not to, either, and it really does sound a lot like Nanoha.
Anyway, to the extent that there is any kind of story beyond "Hey, cute girls flying around firing energy blasts!" it seems to be about Saya, the magical girl from Earth who is in Amane's team. But it isn't much of a story, I suspect, and this is mainly going to be about eye candy.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in General Anime at
02:23 PM
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1
Fapservice makes it look like there's more pandering here (though maybe less outright
sexual pandering) than in
HxH. The ATX version is out for that show, and it's definitely uncensored. There's nowhere left to go except massive wardrobe malfunctions...
Posted by: ubu at July 10, 2016 01:17 PM (UlsdO)
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Where did you see the AT-X version?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 10, 2016 01:38 PM (+rSRq)
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Tokyo Toshan.. be aware I'm referencing HxH, not Ange Vierge. Wasnt subbed, or I downloaded the raw by mistake.
Posted by: ubu at July 10, 2016 03:29 PM (UlsdO)
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I was wondering, since Ange Vierge wasn't supposed to run on AT-X until next week some time.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 10, 2016 03:37 PM (+rSRq)
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I'm not even slightly curious about HxH; the whole idea grosses me out. It grossed me out in Yumeria and all he did was touch the girls. It also grossed me out in Shinmai Maou no Testament, when it was a five-way orgy.
HxH isn't any better; I can do without it.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 10, 2016 03:46 PM (+rSRq)
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To each his own. I'm not interested in card game adaptations; I was fast-forwarding KanColle within the first few minutes. Then again, the refrigerator is strong with this one.
Posted by: ubu at July 10, 2016 05:26 PM (UlsdO)
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July 08, 2016
Cheesecake: Less is more!
Cheesecake should be risqué, revealing, lots of skin and not much else. A
cheesecake picture of a model who is fully dressed isn't cheesecake, so I
apologize for my previous
post. To make it up to you, today's search term is "micro
bikini".
I presume you all realize that everything below the fold is NSFW, so I won't
bother mentioning that everything below the fold is NSFW.



more...
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Cheesecake at
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25:30?
The web site for Ange Vierge says that it's broadcast time is 25:30 on Saturday July 9. I've seen that before, and it's always confused me. I thought there were only 24 hours in a day. Is that not true in Japan? (If they've got a 25 hour day, maybe that's why they're so productive!)
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in General Anime at
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Posted by: at July 08, 2016 07:43 PM (H4pOI)
2
I think the way it works is that late night shows continue from the previous day, rather than having it early on the next day, possibly to separate them from what is considered "morning" television. So instead of saying it airs Sunday at 01:30, they say it airs Saturday at 25:30.
Posted by: Jordi Vermeulen at July 09, 2016 03:38 AM (9BWts)
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July 06, 2016
July 05, 2016
Naming fads
With fifty or sixty new anime titles each season, and this going on for
decades, the studios have a hard time coming up with names for them. Sometimes
they don't have to because the name comes from a manga or a light novel so it's
someone else's problem.
But as a result when we look back on our history we find there are some
trends which appear, get used a few times, and then fade away. Like using
incoherent phrases in English (e.g. "Neon Genesis Evangelion").
The latest one seems to be to use WORDxWORD or LETTERxLETTER. I think it may
have started with HunterxHunter, and continued with SisxSis (which became known
to its fans as "SxS"). Then there was "High School DxD" and
now this season we have "Masou Gakuen HxH".
The latter three were all soft core porn, and I think that LETTERxLETTER has
become a shorthand for "pandering".
The first episode came out today and I didn't watch it. But Fapservice is
right there, doing what they do best, and if you're willing to risk it, here
it is.
It's borderline hentai. If this was broadcast on anything except AT-X, it
probably got censored up the wazoo. I haven't seen anything so lewd since the
Maken Ki OVA.
There's an audience out there for this kind of thing, but I'm not part of it.
I can't drop it because I never picked it up, but if I had I would.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in General Anime at
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The most terrifying commercial competition
Microsoft was the first company to realize the ramifications of the fact that
software costs nothing to reproduce. No matter what it is, it costs $10 to make
a copy (or even less now, with internet distribution). That means the entire
cost is amortized development expense, and thus the more copies you sell, the
less amortized cost there is per unit and the lower the price you can charge.
And with that realization, history was made.
Now Microsoft is finally up against a competitive wall, facing a competitor
it is having a hard time dealing with: itself, five years ago. If software costs nothing to manufacture, the problem is that it also doesn't wear out.
Each new iteration of its products have been intended to be improvements over
the previous version, enough so as to convince people to shell out for the
upgrade. But that's a treacherous path because you eventually run out of obvious
things to add or change, and you end up adding things that people see as being a
"gimmick" instead of an obviously valuable change. And they don't
shell out for the gimmick.
Microsoft is also facing a technological revolution. The self-contained PC is
now being challenged by tablets with touch screens. (And also phones.) The PC
with a built-in keyboard isn't going to die; there are a lot of uses for which
it is simply better than a tablet. But its percentage of the market place will
decline, and Microsoft is facing a crisis the like of which they haven't seen
since OS/2. The problem is that Android is eating Microsoft's lunch in that
arena. Partly that's because Google is giving it away and partly that's because
Microsoft doesn't have any kind of competing product, or it didn't.
The goal of Windows 10 is to make it possible for Windows to run on a PC and
also to run on a tablet. Windows uses the Desktop metaphor which has ruled the
industry for 30 years, and Android uses the new Bookshelf metaphor, which an
increasing number of users find to be very comfortable.
Microsoft is thus facing a bootstrapping problem: they need a lot of copies
of Win 10 out there so developers will create apps for it, but before those apps
appear there is no advantage to Win 10 for PC users, who would rather stay with
Win 7. Without those apps, Win 10 simply isn't a compelling upgrade for Win 7.
They've been reduced to giving it away and using annoying nags to
convince people to switch, and I have a suspicion they've taken to sabotaging
Win 7. And they're rolling out the mother
of all nags this month.
This is an act of desperation, and they're not fooling anyone. It's also a
last ditch. They can never do anything like this again or customers will get
angry. (They already are; this will make it worse.)
Some percentage of PC customers may switch to Linux or switch to OSX, but
most PC customers are locked in with Microsoft. But that's not true for tablet
users, and there's a lot of overlap between those two bodies of customers. If
Microsoft blackens its own eye this way, a lot of PC users will say, Fuck
Microsoft and buy tablets running Android.
Microsoft is already badly behind in this market segment and they may never
be able to catch up at the rate they're going.
In the 1980's Microsoft gained a stranglehold on the PC OS market. Since then
there have been three major attempts to break it: by IBM with OS/2, by Sun with
Java, and by Netscape with Navigator. All the attempts were credible but
ultimately Microsoft was able to fight back.
Now Google is making the fourth attempt, and I think they're going to
succeed. It's hard to compete with "free" but "free" alone
isn't enough to win, as Linux freaks have found.
Android is also free but it's also friendly like Linux isn't. And Google
isn't going to start charging for it, either. Part of Google's business plan is
to make internet
access into a commodity, because the more time people spend online the more
money Google makes. That necessarily means they need to badly harm Microsoft,
but they aren't doing it out of any kind of animosity. It's just that Microsoft
is in the way and needs to be moved.
I think Microsoft is making a huge mistake in all this; they're sacrificing
30 years of customer good will. On the other hand, I'm not really sure what else
they could do, except to find some other business to be in. And they've been
trying to do that for 30 years and their only successes were the XBox and the
Microsoft Mouse.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Computers at
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Oh, look, someone haven't heard of Microsoft Azure, the only credible alternative to Amazon AWS in the area where even the mighty Google peed it down their leg.
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at July 05, 2016 09:01 PM (XOPVE)
2
Also explains why they bought Mojang (developers of Minecraft) and LinkedIn.
Oh, and their Surface line is doing pretty well. They have competition now, but the competition is other high-end Windows tablets and convertibles, which is exactly what they want.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at July 05, 2016 09:22 PM (PiXy!)
3
The Windows Update thing
looks like sabotage, but it's mostly just old code that Microsoft has never bothered to redesign. XP had the never-ending Update process for a long time, and the core issue was the same: the sheer number of released patches broke their algorithm for determining which ones you needed.
The fix was to release a major Service Pack, which reset the baseline. Anyone running Service Pack N didn't have to calculate all the patches that came before that; they were guaranteed to be present. Windows 7 never had a second service pack, and of course they don't want to officially announce one now, so it's disguised as an optional "roll-up" patch that you have to be tipped off about. Explicitly superseding earlier patches means they can now be left out of future calculations.
-j
Posted by: J Greely at July 05, 2016 10:25 PM (ZlYZd)
4
The "Free" Windows 10 upgrade was an extremely good idea born from an understanding of where the market was going. Good on Microsoft.
The *implementation* of everything around it is standard Microsoft. Which is to say done with as little competence as necessary to get it out the door. If Windows 10 didn't have all of the spy-ware baked into the OS, I'd have upgraded. But I see no reason to, as it stands.
Even since Vista, people & businesses no longer upgrade rapidly. Since the 1.6ghz generation of CPUs, there's been little reason to upgrade business computers. (Office applications run just fine there. In fact, they don't run any faster on 10+ year newer hardware. Go figure.) Once computers hit a sufficient level of processing power, the upgrade cycle shifted by 3-5 years. That's the market MSFT finds itself in, now. So offering no-cost Win 10 upgrades was a really smart idea. People will still pay when they buy new computers and businesses will generally upgrade there computers about every 5 years.
There's also a very useful benefit of bringing everyone onto roughly the same platform. That should hopefully, as Steven pointed out, make it so developers focus on the primary Windows OS.
Posted by: sqa at July 05, 2016 10:40 PM (Zcnzi)
5
I realize that as a mechanical engineer with a computer engineering background, who spends 8 hours a day sitting in front of a CAD workstation, I'm not the typical user. Very much not the typical user.
But, from my perspective, the sheer usability of Windows peaked with Windows XP. Subsequent versions may incorporate some technical improvements in some areas, and I understand the need to upgrade the underlying code to eliminate exploits as they are discovered.
But the user experience has been going downhill fast from my perspective. Trying to force an interface designed for the limited real estate of a phone screen on people using desktops was something of a last straw for me. My wife's new laptop ended up with Windows 8, and it was a nightmare. My wife is 35, it gave her fits. My son is 7, even he couldn't figure it out. So it can't just be that I'm 57. It's a genuinely bad OS.
I'm running Windows 7 pro, and even here so many things that were easy on XP have been made harder. Inexplicably harder. I'm running a faster computer than ever, and simply searching a directory takes forever, because it insists on "indexing" everything before it will do the search. Why could XP search a directory faster without indexing it, on a slower computer?
And I know that my opinion isn't eccentric, because our corporate headquarters has decided to stick with Windows 7 pro for the foreseeable future. Partly because it violates company policy to install spyware, and as far as IT is concerned, Windows 10 is spyware. If that doesn't change, we're never upgrading to another version of Windows. We might even go to Linux, if necessary.
Here's a crazy idea: Keep the old interfaces as options, and just change the guts. I don't care about the guts. As long as the performance is there, I care about the interface. There's no technical reason Windows 10 couldn't have a "looks like XP" mode. Or even a "looks like 8" mode, lunatics are a market, too.
Posted by: Brett Bellmore at July 06, 2016 02:43 AM (l55xw)
6
XP is still my favorite, followed by 7, then 98SE2 and 3.11.
And I *hate* spyware. That's why I don't like Google very much, because their "free" model is built around spying on me and selling that data to anybody willing to pay. That will lead to Bad Things(tm) someday, and I want no part of it. I have an Android phone, but I use it sparingly, and social media not at all.
I understand that M$ is being forced to compete with "free", I just wish there was a (reasonable) premium market for those of us who still actually value our privacy.
Posted by: BigD at July 06, 2016 03:11 AM (VKO9N)
7
I use Win7, but again, last night, it annoyed me by making it harder to perform system maintenance tasks, and troubleshoot a problem with my computer that turned out to be an application software glitch. XP was probably as close to perfect as the admin functions ever got, and makes me wish there was an equivalent to the Great Old Games site, only for O/S. "Great Old Operating System Experiences" or GOOSE for short.
Posted by: ubu at July 06, 2016 06:36 AM (SlLGE)
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July 04, 2016
All good things come to an end
Once upon a time the World's Fair was a huge deal. In the 1930's it was held in NYC and it was a real event. I remember when I was a kid it was held in Seattle, and we visited and that was a big deal, too. They built the Space Needle for it and installed the monorail in downtown, which is still running, 50 years later.
But these days they aren't really very important; I don't even know where the last couple were held, indeed if they were held recently at all. The Vancouver world's fair was rather lackluster but I think it was Nashville that started the death spiral.
Now I think that the Olympics are going to face the same fate, and this year is the beginnning of the end.
All reports are that the games in Rio de Janeiro are going to be a disaster. It's supposed to take place in August and some of the facilities aren't complete yet. The drinking water there is contaminated and the area around the site is crime-ridden. The area of ocean where all the yachting events are supposed to take place is contaminated with unprocessed sewage.
And there's the Zika virus and the mosquitos that carry it. Plus the Russian track team isn't being permitted to attend because of a drugging scandal. And the laboratory which was supposed to do all the drug tests can't because its equipment doesn't work and its people have been bribed. Or something like that.
Meanwhile, the City of Rio is broke and may not be able to provide the services (like police) that are required.
So this game will be a disaster. But will it begin the downturn, like Nashville did for the World's Fairs?
UPDATE: Sorry, Knoxville, not Nashville!
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Weird World at
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Another reason I think we're looking at the beginning of the end is that putting on a game is getting absurdly expensive. The Sochi winter games cost something like $56 billion, for example. It looks like a fair amount of that was because of corruption but even without that it's a preposterous amount of money.
And the site selection process was revealed a long time ago as being thoroughly corrupt, involving a lot of bribery. Myself, I can't figure out why any city would want to have anything to do with this, and one way it might end is that for some year no one comes forward with a bid.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 04, 2016 10:55 PM (+rSRq)
2
The Sydney Olympics went off with barely a blip. Despite being more than three times the size of the Sochi Winter Olympics, they cost about, hmm, $7 billion in today's money. We (being the state of New South Wales, which ultimately footed the bill) lost money overall, but less than what we currently run as an annual budget surplus.
One proposal I saw that makes a lot of sense is for the Summer Olympics to be permanently hosted in Athens and for the competing nations to contribute to the cost. Probably never happen because it would drastically reduce the opportunity for graft.
If you want to get really depressed, look at what's going on with Qatar's preparation for the 2022 FIFA World Cup. (That's soccer, for countries that play real football.) They're spending the equivalent of their annual GDP on it.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at July 05, 2016 12:53 AM (PiXy!)
3
Functionally, the Summer Olympics can only be held in about 7-10 cities in the World. They already have the infrastructure and capacity to deal with the event. Even the upcoming Tokyo Olympics (2020 Summer Games) is looking to be a bit of a stretch for the Japanese.
They're much like monument building: if they're cheap, it's not a problem; if they're expensive, it's a huge disaster. Which is why you need locations that already have nearly all of the facilities and don't need to build new ones. This limits your options to: LA, NYC, London, Paris, Berlin and some collection of a few other major capitals. Otherwise, you're looking at wasted capital expenses in the billions.
The downfall of the Olympics, though, I believe was the 2004 Games in Athens. That actually is what blew up the Greek government budget trying to cover the costs, which would eventually set off their financial crisis. Small countries simply can't afford the outlays, and most of the recent countries have viewed the Olympics as a way to show-off. Thus China's monster expenses for the 2008 games.
Posted by: sqa at July 05, 2016 05:08 AM (Zcnzi)
4
Boston recently tried to bid for the 2024 Summer Olympics. The bid itself was almost as much of a debacle as the Rio games will be. Bostonians (really Bay Staters in general) rejected the idea, mostly because they didn't believe the rose-colored ROI promises. Fortunately the idea was killed before tons of public money was sunk into the project, and it was mostly the people who stood to gain the most left holding the bag.
And let's not get into why Boston would be hosting the Summer Olympics instead of the Winter one....
Posted by: StargazerA5 at July 05, 2016 07:51 AM (5YSpE)
5
One of the proposed soccer venues for the Tokyo Olympics is in Sapporo, over 500 miles away. That will probably be easier to reach than the venues in Odaiba. (apparently the soccer venues won't be finalized until after the Rio disaster finishes; everything else is set, including moving the cycling events out to Izu)
If I go to Japan in 2020, it will either be Kyoto in the spring (avoiding all the last-minute infrastructure work) or Tokyo in the fall (after all the cleanup is done). I don't want to be anywhere near Olympic crowds.
-j
Posted by: J Greely at July 05, 2016 08:52 AM (ZlYZd)
6
I went to 1980 Olympics and it was pretty fun, all things considered. A dozen of teams participated under Olympic flag, that being the time of Cold War. We're getting back to that.
In general though, is anyone interested anymore? I think I may muster a modicum of interest in women's beach volleyball, now that women's tennis is what it has become. But I won't go out of my way to watch. If it were a DOTA2 match, that would be different.
Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at July 05, 2016 08:58 AM (XOPVE)
7
...most of the recent countries have viewed the Olympics as a way to show-off. Thus China's monster expenses for the 2008 games.
That is exactly it - most countries bidding for the Olympics these days want it as their international 'debutante coming out party'. For that matter, you could say a lot of the past ones have been the same way, like 1964 Tokyo, 1968 Mexico City and 1988 Seoul (Which shocked the North Koreans when Seoul's bid actually won.). Economics have damn little to do with it anymore - the Olympics that had good management (1984 Los Angeles, for example.) are the rarity. That is why Brazil went for 2016, and that is why Turkey was aiming for the Olympics as well.
What is becoming clear is that the bids that are winning are coming from countries lacking the economic foundations to support extravagance like the Olympics. South Korea could afford to the 1988 Olympics back then (Now would be a different matter.) - not even the most optimistic person would have thought Greece could afford the 2004 Olympics under the best circumstances.
Posted by: cxt217 at July 05, 2016 03:34 PM (BlSya)
8
That was why Nashville was the beginning of the end of the World Fairs. Before that, a city would host the World Fair as a way of bringing attention to the city, a "coming out party" as you say.
Nashville saw the fair as a way of making money. They hoped it would bring in more money (tourism, and so on) than they spent putting it on. As a result, they cut things to the bone; there weren't all that many exhibits and most of those were lackluster.
Brazil probably intended the Rio Olympics to be a "coming out" party, but when they made the bid, they didn't expect the world to go into recession, and now they simply don't have the money to make it work.
And the Zika virus scare certainly didn't help any.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 05, 2016 04:28 PM (+rSRq)
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Nashville? Knoxville, perhaps.
Posted by: Mark A. Flacy at July 05, 2016 05:33 PM (ATlQg)
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Speaking of World's Fairs, I had considered going to the 2005 one for my first trip to Japan, but the scheduling didn't work out. Looking it up, they apparently made a decent profit on it, and the park they built still gets traffic.
Wikipedia on the Knoxville fair links to an AP story saying that it turned a $57 profit, but that Knoxville was left with $46 million in debt (paid off in 2007). The 2010 Shanghai Expo was reportedly a huge success, but the three billion dollars the city invested wasn't counted against the revenue, and they're apparently still spending money to get the site renovated into a business district.
As for the upcoming Expos in Kazakhstan and Dubai, I don't see them drawing big Western crowds, although I imagine they'll get Asian tourists.
-j
Posted by: J Greely at July 05, 2016 06:33 PM (ZlYZd)
11
You're right; it was Knoxville, not Nashville.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 05, 2016 06:35 PM (+rSRq)
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CNN: Rio police tell tourists they won't be able to protect them
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 05, 2016 06:40 PM (+rSRq)
13
I grew up in Tennessee, so the difference between K-town and Nashville was easy to see. (Of course, one has Instapundit and the other doesn't...)
I have absolutely no doubt that I would fail any similar test between two relatively large cities in Washington state or any other place in which I have not lived.
Posted by: Mark A. Flacy at July 05, 2016 07:51 PM (ATlQg)
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The Brazilian prostitutes are now holding an Olympic sales on their services. The much promised 2014 World Cup boom fizzled and they're still looking for that fabled sexed up sport tourists. Brazil is currently in the running for the worse run Olympic, with competition with Sochi 2014, Athens 2004, Montreal 1976 (where they were paying for that overly ambitious retractable dome stadium until 2006).
I just can't wait to see how NBC Sports spins this in their broadcast, not that I ever watch the Olympics anyway.
Posted by: BigFire at July 06, 2016 02:39 PM (O7l6D)
15
I figure there will be at least three more Summer Games on schedule. Beyond that I am dubious. Oddly, the Winter Games might do better, because they are less expensive to put on.
Posted by: Boviate at July 06, 2016 07:45 PM (XRvFv)
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There's a significant risk that could kill it all off. The American broadcast networks pay a grotesquely large amount of money for the broadcast rights each time. If, however, the ratings collapse then the networks won't be willing to ante up as much cash, and that will completely change the entire economic picture, and could begin a downward spiral.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at July 06, 2016 08:13 PM (+rSRq)
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Maybe CCTV (Central China Television - i.e. the TV propaganda arm of the PRC government.) can step in with funding. If the Olympics coverage is going to provide the viewers with Communist propaganda, they should have a (notionally) Communist government pay for it.
Posted by: cxt217 at July 06, 2016 08:18 PM (KlK5I)
18
I wonder if splitting them so there'd be an event every two years instead of four hurt? I know they feel a lot more mundane now.
Posted by: RickC at July 08, 2016 09:21 PM (l0khk)
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