April 26, 2010

Rock solid logic

(via) If Batman fights Superman, who wins? Rock solid logic proves it would be Batman.

UPDATE: Actually, premise 5 is debateable. "Batman would never initiate a fight he could not win." ... unless he didn't care about losing. For instance, maybe he needs to keep Superman distracted.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "winning". If you mean "one guy stands looking down at the unconscious body of the other" then that's one thing. But if you use the more expansive meaning of "achieving an objective" then in that case keeping Superman distracted is itself a victory, so Batman is still a winner even if he's the one who is unconscious at the end.

UPDATE: I can live with the "no kryptonite" restriction, because Batman can still use high-power red lasers.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste in linky at 01:45 PM | Comments (11) | Add Comment
Post contains 136 words, total size 1 kb.

1 The real problem with such scenarios, if you try and examine them seriously and with some rigor, is superspeed.  Based on feats from the comics, Superman and various other speedsters technically should perceive everyone around them as statues, whenever they feel like it.

This doesn't make beating them *impossible*, but it does mean that a lot of hypothetical matches end in "Superman beats up a physically comparable, but non-relativistic, statue."

Posted by: metaphysician at April 26, 2010 04:59 PM (/YIPx)


About 8 years ago they started yet another Justice League cartoon series. I remember seeing an interview with one of the writers, and he said that their problem was the Flash. "He's just too powerful."

It's the point you make: superspeed is, ultimately, just too strong a power, and it pretty much nullifies any other. For the most part, they didn't let the Flash use his power the way such a power really would be used, because in nearly every challenge they faced, the Flash could have won all by himself.

(Also, in that series Superman never used super-speed. It's like they decided he didn't have that power at all.)

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at April 26, 2010 05:23 PM (+rSRq)

3 Back in the old days, DC actually pitted Superman and the Flash in races against each other.  I had a copy of Superman #199, the first time the two raced: three times around the globe.  Of course, there were rules and restrictions... Supes couldn't fly, for example.  Also of course, the race ended in a tie.

It did bring up an interesting concept, though, in that the Flash was actually disabled by a pane of glass stretched across the road.  Sort of makes you wonder what would have happened if the bad guys ("the Mafia") had put a couple of strands of monofilament wire across instead...

Posted by: Wonderduck at April 26, 2010 07:07 PM (Cpxcy)

4 Ah yes, the Bruce Timm animated JL.  Quite nice, IMO.  And yes, the Flash is the most broken of the JLAers; if anything he's even worse in the comic.  That "unseen obstacle in the way" trick, for instance, has failed in more recent times. . . as his reaction is so quick that as he feels it touching his skin, he vibrates through it.

About the only way to beat him is to be as fast as him or moreso, or to be both so durable he can't harm you in any way and possessing of autohitting attacks.  Or, far more commonly, to have the writer on your side in order to get a comic to last a full issue.

Posted by: metaphysician at April 26, 2010 07:47 PM (/YIPx)


I liked the Justice League animated series.  Then they went to Justice League Unlimited, and the joy of watching it went away.

Oddly enough, they did address the potential problem with superspeed, in one episode.  But there was never an answer, as it was all handwaved away (Due to the nature of the episode's story.).


Posted by: cxt217 at April 27, 2010 01:11 PM (9nxXd)


There are a lot of problems with super-speed. Two in particular are sonic booms, and resistive heating.

If Flash really ran as fast as they say, he'd leave a trail of destruction behind him from the shock wave. And his costume (and body) would both burn up.

But they have been ignoring those things for decades, so only a spoil-sport like me would even talk about them.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at April 27, 2010 01:40 PM (+rSRq)

7 Of course, there's always this: Batman with Green Lantern Power Ring.

Posted by: BigFire at April 27, 2010 01:40 PM (9KNwi)

8 Unfortunately, you put an extra slash in your link.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at April 27, 2010 02:07 PM (+rSRq)


Superman has a weakness to red lasers now? What's next, a weakness to hexagons? Paisley?

Eh, after they turned Green Lantern into the Rainbow Brite Corps, nothing could really surprise me any more. Even with the goddamned Batman, DC is still Mortal Combat to Marvel's Street Fighter.

Posted by: Tatterdemalian at April 29, 2010 06:13 PM (4njWT)

10 Think "red sunlight."  Though whether Superman is susceptible to it post Crisis is variable.  Somewhat moot, though, as Batman can and has made kryptonite ( he used to be one of only two or three people who had figured out how to synthesize the stuff ).

That said. . . well, actually, while I do like Marvel better these days, both companies have engaged in vigorous races to the bottom.  Marvel is better mostly because they have some non-mainstream comics that get good writing, and because movie success encourages the editors to revert some of the more. . . insane. . . events of the past five years.

Posted by: metaphysician at April 29, 2010 07:09 PM (/YIPx)


TD, the deal was that Krypton's sun was red, and that's why none of the Kryptonians had super powers at home. Our sun is yellow, and that gives Kryptonians super powers.

But apparently if you hit them with light the color of Krypton's sun, say with a laser, it locally overrides the power of the sun and makes them vulnerable. So red lasers can kill Superman.

At least that was the case in the Superman/Spiderman crossover. As MP says, it's anyone's guess what the word is on that post Crisis.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at April 29, 2010 10:08 PM (+rSRq)

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