March 26, 2009

Online Japanese dictionaries

My usual online dictionary has been AnimeLab. One problem with it is that their database is outdated. (It doesn't include madoushi, for instance.)

J Greely's dictionary is good, and his database does know what madoushi means. But I can't link to search results.

I just learned of a new one called Nihongodict. It's spiffy as hell. It's using the same EDICT database, and results are linkable.

UPDATE: I was wrong about J's dictionary. Looks like I can link to search results. The only real problem is that his search results don't include romaji representations, which is pretty important for illiterates like me.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Japanese at 11:05 AM | Comments (9) | Add Comment
Post contains 105 words, total size 1 kb.

1 If you select romanized output, the link that's generated includes it as well (or append ";r=on"). I need to update the data soon; it's about two months old now, and there have been some significant updates mentioned on the mailing list.

-j

Posted by: J Greely at March 26, 2009 04:44 PM (02VwI)

2

I didn't realize that.

Is there really any reason to make that a choice? Why not always provide it?

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at March 26, 2009 04:50 PM (+rSRq)

3 Phase one of the project was accurately displaying the full contents of JMdict. Phase two was editing with no loss of metadata. Phases three and beyond went on the back-burner when sales picked up at work, and I haven't been back to it since.

The reason I'm not providing the romanized readings all of the time is that I, personally, never want to see them. Input and output should both be cookie-based preferences, and I just haven't gotten around to writing that. Or redoing the Kanjidic lookup to be as faithful to the data as JMdict. Or cleaning up the UI. Or applying the kanji/reading/meaning limitations instead of just displaying them inline (although I do have code for that one...).

-j

Posted by: J Greely at March 26, 2009 06:52 PM (02VwI)

4 Fair enough, and it's your tool and you should design it for your own needs. I'm not criticizing.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at March 26, 2009 06:57 PM (+rSRq)

5 I think than romaji is the Tool of the Devil.  Serious students of Japanese (university level) should be taught the kana before they learn word one of Japanese, or it'll take years for them to get the romanized versions (and attendant mispronounciations) out of their head. 
But a friend of mine, Marc Miyake, who has taught Japanese in university, tells me it's hard enough to keep students in Asian language classes, and he feels if he did that half the students would leave in the first week.  Tough call.
I learned to read and write them in three weeks while holding down a full-time job, and I'm a dreadful linguist, no talent at all.  But then again I was highly motivated.

Posted by: Toren at March 26, 2009 08:46 PM (Kmb8s)

6 I object to the serious student bend. Kana is easy. It's fun. IMHO it was a mistake for Steven to go romanji route and one of the big reasons he and others do it is the spin of seriouseness some people put on this. Romanji needs to be exterminated from education.

Now I may be biased, because vast majority of Russians hate volapyuk aka latinitsa. It's just offensive and causes a visceral reaction. In the same time I think Japanese are completely cool with romanji. They don't HATE HATE HATE it. Nonetheless I noticed that on IRC, for example, romanji is only used in channels with significant weaboo quotient. Real Japanese use kana (in SJIS sadly; damn cavemen). So the preference is clear.

BTW, I was lucky to study Japanese by a romanji-free curriculum in a local community college. It was fairly painless. We just crammed hiragana in two weeks and were home free to poke at katakana at our own pace. 50 characters is only two times more than English has (Russian has 33 letters). If you can write in English, you can write in kana with equal facility.

Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at March 26, 2009 09:39 PM (/ppBw)

7

I'm not a student. I'm a dabbler. I don't have the energy these days to seriously study anything. (I hardly have the energy to get up in the morning.)

The only reason I do romaji (Pete, there's no "n" in it) is because I already know the roman alphabet. I've been picking up hiragana a bit, and there are about five, maybe, of them I now know on sight. But genuinely studying them, and learning them -- well, you might as well assign me a 5 mile run. They're as likely to happen.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at March 26, 2009 09:50 PM (+rSRq)

8 I agree with Steven, regarding his own case.  Clearly, he's just having fun.  He has no need to make sure he won't make mistakes in spoken conversation as he works towards passing his orals in his junior year, or as he talks with people in Tokyo.
Which is why I said "serious students." 
I'm always pleased when any anime or manga fan makes an effort to learn something about the language.  I really think it increases their enjoyment, as long as they don't get overimpressed with their knowledge.
(Pete, "romanji" rather than "romaji" is the sort of classic error that is often caused by...the use of romaji.  If you read it in kana you would never make that mistake, as you know.   I'm not picking on you; just pointing it out.  And it's great your course used kana.  Would that more did.)

Posted by: Toren at March 26, 2009 10:13 PM (Kmb8s)

9 In my first-year class (community college night school), we started with 33 students, and were down to 17 by the end of the quarter. Most of them left because they wouldn't put in the time to learn the kana and a few basic kanji. The rest simply discovered that as much as they liked anime, Japanese was the wrong language to take if they just wanted a year of something to meet the UC transfer requirements.

-j

Posted by: J Greely at March 27, 2009 06:52 AM (02VwI)

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