June 29, 2007
Author is irate. People like me should be shot. (Or maybe I'm the lucky example with "mitigating factors".)
I'd like to know how he'd feel if he saw "Zedung Mao" in a news or historical article. Or "Chi Minh Ho".
Posted by: Steven Den Beste in System at
08:03 PM
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You know, I think I've got more important things in this world to get upset over than whether Japanese names should be in Western or Eastern style after translation into romaji. Or translated at all. I really don't care; It doesn't bother me.
Except the time I met a Vietnamese named Phouc Long Duong. Keeping a straight face was not easy.
Wait, did I have a point here? Come to think of it, did the original author?
Posted by: ubu roi at June 29, 2007 09:09 PM (6Gqgi)
Posted by: astro at June 29, 2007 09:17 PM (q4NkN)
But the same's not true in the US - if you introduce someone to an American, you expect the name order to be given/family, and it would be weird to give it backwards and then say "X is the first name."
Usually swapping is the easiest way to prevent confusion, assuming you're writing for an English-language audience. The only time I didn't is when the show made a point of some characters swapping and some not - RahXephon had a couple of non-Japanese characters who'd address Ayato as "Ayato Kamina", instead of the usual other way around, for example.
Never confuse the reader if you don't have to. If you DO have to, have a good reason for having to! ;p
Posted by: Avatar_exADV at June 29, 2007 10:31 PM (dlP4b)
Two interesting examples from anime:
1. Vandread. Most of the characters in Vandread have non-Japanese names. Our hero is named "Hibiki Tokai" and that's the order he gives his name (e.g. in the second episode to Duero in the brig).
2. In Someday's Dreamers, when Yume first meets Angela, Yume tries to speak English to Angela and says, "My name is Yume Kikuchi."
That said, I've always done Japanese names surname first simply because that's what their names are. It always felt presumptuous for me to rearrange the order to fit what we in the West do.
(Though it's always felt wrong to do that with Yamamoto Maria, since she somehow or other ended up with a Western given name.)
Actually, my main opinion about this is that it's a tempest in a teacup.
[As to the identity of "Author", I've always known it. But it's not my secret to reveal, and it isn't yours either. He'll use his real name or not as he sees fit. It's not for any of us to make the decision to spoil his nom-de-blog for him by linking it to his real name someplace where the Google bot can find it. Which is my roundabout way of saying, Even if you think you know what it is, don't post it. Not here, and not anywhere.]
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at June 29, 2007 10:47 PM (+rSRq)
Customary usage seems to be "standard order" if the content is Japanese-style, "western order" if the content has an international flavor or is intended for export. Mangaka names seem to run about 50/50; for instance, Read or Die is westernized, Read or Dream is not.
-j
Posted by: J Greely at June 30, 2007 06:31 AM (2XtN5)
I think a large part of why we in the West seem to insist on (or instinctively use) given/family order is that we're more individual focused. The given name is what identifies the individual standing in front of you. The family name is for heritage and further clarification.
It may also have something to do with associating hearing our full-names growing up with being in a whole lot of trouble.
Posted by: Will at June 30, 2007 08:02 AM (olS40)
Posted by: Tatterdemalian at June 30, 2007 09:45 AM (DiEya)
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at June 30, 2007 10:28 AM (+rSRq)
Posted by: Toren Smith at June 30, 2007 12:08 PM (hdEnp)
Posted by: Andrew F. at June 30, 2007 12:22 PM (fhs/5)
In fact, for the Sakazakis, there seem to be two exceptions: not only are the names given name first, family name last, but when written in Japanese, they're written all in katakana. I'd be interested in knowing what the backstory with that decision was.
Posted by: JR at June 30, 2007 02:56 PM (18Ppn)
Enclose all spoilers in spoiler tags:
[spoiler]your spoiler here[/spoiler]
Spoilers which are not properly tagged will be ruthlessly deleted on sight.
Also, I hate unsolicited suggestions and advice. (Even when you think you're being funny.)
At Chizumatic, we take pride in being incomplete, incorrect, inconsistent, and unfair. We do all of them deliberately.
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