January 30, 2015

Kancolle -- dropped

The fourth episode is out this week but I haven't watched it. And I'm not going to watch any more of the series. A discussion of why, with spoilers, below the fold.


There are blatantly obvious parallels between Kancolle and Strike Witches. Strike Witches has references to the real events of WWII. For instance, the first SW series was mostly based on the Battle of Britain. But it didn't really end the same way. The good guys won (yay!) but there's no equivalent to the liberation of Gaulia. There's no equivalent to the Warlock. And there wasn't any Japanese carrier in European waters, then or ever.

The Second SW series was based on a battle for northern Italy, and there was no equivalent in WWII. The SW movie is a reference to the Battle of the Bulge, but only distantly so.

Plus, SW actually acknowledged this. In one episode in the first series, Wilcke and Sakamoto are talking and Sakamoto says that if it weren't for the Neuroi invasion, probably all the countries of the Earth would be fighting one another by that point.

It looks like Kancolle is doing the same thing, but not as adroitly. The battle in ep 3 happened at a thinly disguised version of Wake Island, and at the end of it Kisaragi was sunk. The real Kisaragi was sunk on Dec. 11, 1941 while withdrawing from a battle at Wake Island. Four American F4F's carrying bombs did it in.

Does that mean the Kancolle monsters are actually the Americans? And does it mean that the entire Kancolle timeline will take place in the first few months of the war -- which is to say, before Midway? Akagi is one of the main characters in Kancolle, and the real Akagi was sunk at Midway.

Before the war was over nearly every warship belonging to the Japanese was gone. Damned few survived. For instance, of the 24 Fubuki-class destroyers only Hibiki and Ushio escaped destruction.

The main character in the Kancolle anime so far has been Fubuki. The real Fubuki was sunk 10/11/1942 at the Battle of Cape Esperance.

I'm a little offended that the monsters are implied to be American, but that's not my real gripe. My biggest complaint is that the characterization is so thin.

Leave us face it: the basic concept behind Strike Witches is really silly. The source for the show is a series of statuettes. In one of them they included a DVD with a 20-minute OVA about all the characters.

And it was magnetic enough so that they eventually did the first series. What saved it was characterization. (And fan service.) 11 main characters is a bit fat, but they're all so vividly conceived and well acted, and so distinct, that I don't think anyone ever got confused by them.

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If you're familiar with the franchise, then you know who this is. And you know why she's sleeping on the floor, surrounded by junk.

About the fan service, obviously it was an important part of the series -- but it wasn't the foundation of it. The SW Movie didn't have any fan service (beyond the inevitable panty shots); it wasn't needed.

I won't say that SW was a top-drawer series, but they had the budget to do a decent job, like hiring top-drawer voice talent. And they paid a lot of attention to the voice acting, and it made a huge difference.

I think that's where Kancolle suffers the worst. If you look at the credits, the main character are all voiced by unknowns, and several of the ships share the same seiyuu. And I felt it when watching the eps I did watch. It all feels like a half-rate effort, like the people involved were just doing it for a paycheck and didn't really care.

The people who worked on Strike Witches knew that their story's foundation was a joke, but they were determined to try to do their best with it, and IMHO they did an amazing job surmounting it. I'm not feeling that same commitment in Kancolle.

And if they don't care, I don't see why I should.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste in General Anime at 12:03 PM | Comments (21) | Add Comment
Post contains 694 words, total size 4 kb.

1 ...several of the ships share the same seiyuu.

While I understand what you're saying (and complaining about), you have to remember one basic, simple, undeniable fact:

This show isn't for us.  It's for the people who play the game Kancolle.  The VAs for the anime are the same as those who voiced the ships in the game.  You know what fans are like: if they changed the VAs, there'd be a riot, plain and simple.  Many of the lines spoken in the show are taken directly from the game... Kongo's "Burning love!", Kisaragi's "Don't forget about Kisaragi", so on and so forth.  That's all fanservice for the gameplayers.

Unlike you, I think the VAs are doing an incredible job.  There have been a few times when Ayane Sakura, for example, has had a four-way on-screen conversation with herself, and the voices were sufficiently different that I had no idea.  Same thing happens in Ep04 with the Kongo sisters, except they do a musical number to boot.

And yeah, there's a lot of overlap going on, but did you notice?  The VAs for the actual main characters (Fubuki and Akagi) are only playing one role.

Are there problems with the show?  Absolutely, loads of them.  Do we know what direction its going to go?  Nope... and that's what's making it interesting for me.  We don't know if the Abyssals are supposed to be the US Navy, and we're not going to find out in this show... if it hasn't been announced in the game, they're surely not going to make it happen here.

The battle that occurred in this episode had no parallel in WWII.  From the suggestions I saw, next week's destination is supposed to be the Coral Sea.  If CarDiv Five gets smacked around, we'll have a better idea.  As is, they reference Operation FS in the show... which was a planned operation that never happened. 

*shrug* 

Posted by: Wonderduck at January 30, 2015 01:04 PM (jGQR+)

2 Yeah, but next week's ep title also has CarDiv 5 in the title...

Honestly, at present it's not a great show and is only hanging onto "good" by the fingertips. It's got an extreme Too Damn Many Characters problem and the characterization for some of them is cardboard-thin. I thought the second episode did a good job of getting away from "here is a shipgirl and here is her line, now let us introduce another flotilla of them", and into actually giving some of them some development, so they at least know that it's necessary...

Posted by: Avatar_exADV at January 30, 2015 02:37 PM (zJsIy)

3

It's possible to handle a huge cast without losing the audience. Girls und Panzer does a superb job of it. At the beginning of the show there are 21 girls on the team plus the Discipline girl and various competing teams, and that's just in the first two episodes. Before it's all over we get the Wrench Wenches and the entire Discipline Committee and the Gamer Girls, and four competing teams -- and I don't think anyone gets lost even then. At the end of the series Ooarai's team is 27 girls, and we know all of them.

(Well, the girls in the Discipline Committee aren't very distinctive, but that was done deliberately. They're not supposed to be distinctive; their similiarity is part of their character.)

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at January 30, 2015 03:30 PM (+rSRq)

4 At the end of the series Ooarai's team is 27 girls, and we know all of them.

Allow me to say, in the great words of the immortal orator Winston Churchill: what a load of horsecrap.

We've spent a good amount of time with twelve: Anglerfish's five, Turtle's three, and Hippo's four.  We don't know the other 15, they just have unique clothing.  Oh, volleyball uniform, that's Team Duck and their Type89.  Jumpsuits, that's the Auto club and their Porsche Tiger.  Their TANKS are more detailed characters than they are.

Posted by: Wonderduck at January 30, 2015 04:22 PM (jGQR+)

5 The girls in Team Rabbit are distinctive to me, at least. Their driver is my favorite secondary character in the show.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at January 30, 2015 04:54 PM (+rSRq)

6 The girls in Team Rabbit are distinctive to me... ...Their driver is my favorite...

Without looking it up, what's her name?

We know more about some of Oorai's opponents than we do the girls on their squad.

Posted by: Wonderduck at January 30, 2015 05:08 PM (jGQR+)

7 I think the difference here is how it's done.

GuP doesn't expect us to remember the names of everyone in the other teams. They've got their own personalities, but they basically are emergent properties of seeing them interact with each other in a natural fashion. They're mostly in the "normal" range, excepting the StuG crew, and those guys are all weird in the same way. We never need to know which one of the volleyball girls is the captain or which of the StuG team is into Caesar and which is into Rommel.

It's not IMPORTANT that we know the individual crew in GuP. They can kinda sit there in the background, with the idea that yes, there are characters there but we don't have to keep them straight really.

The ships in Kancolle aren't like that. They're constantly showing up as "hey, here is a name", and the viewer is expected to immediately be able to associate them together and pick up on the in-jokes thereby. Like ep 4, they start calling Shimakaze "Zekamashi". What? -Why-? Well, it's the alternate reading of the name, right? But if you didn't happen to know that, then it's -freakin' weird-.

All sorts of call-outs like that are happening. Why is shipgirl X saying stupid thing Y? "Well, it was like that in the game." Why is Naka doing an idol thing? "Well, that's a complicated joke from the game." Why is this ship spouting Russian? "Well, she got claimed by the Russians after the war." Why is Shimakaze going on about being fast? "Well, that ship was really fast." That sort of thing worked okay when you're talking about a card game aimed at military otaku who of course know which cruisers are in which classes; in an anime you can't let that carry the show, and it's way more of the show than it oughta be.

The formula works in smaller doses. Even in ep 4 it wouldn't have been so bad if, well, Kongou and company weren't so thoroughly odd...

Posted by: Avatar_exADV at January 30, 2015 05:22 PM (zJsIy)

8 In general, I think it's possible, and therefore required for quality, to perform all the callouts without damaging the anime itself. AKB0048 and Kanon (2006) were well done in how viewers were not expected to know anything about the original source. Can't wait for a critique of Cinderella Girls by someone who's not playing the game.

Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at January 30, 2015 05:33 PM (RqRa5)

9 I think it's possible, and therefore required for quality, to perform all the callouts without damaging the anime itself.

100% correct.  I had this thought whilst having dinner tonight, and used Kanon '06 and Clannad/Clannad AS as examples.  That's why I said that Kancolle is for players of the game, not for the casual watcher.  If I didn't have such a strong background in the ships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, I'd be missing out on all of the inside jokes, instead of just most of them.

They start calling Shimakaze "Zekamashi". What? -Why-? Well, it's the alternate reading of the name, right?

I had to look it up; apparently it's because of the way the name is printed on Turret-kun's life preserver... it's (allegedly) backwards.

Posted by: Wonderduck at January 30, 2015 06:49 PM (jGQR+)

10 I'm in general agreement there. I've got JUST enough to go off between some good histories and running into a lot of the meme bits in other contexts to keep my head above water, but... they could be doing a better job.

Honestly, if I think about it, the Kongou class was probably done just about the correct way. They've got a bunch of weirdos; they introduced them as a pack of weirdos; they showed the other ships reacting to them in a "will you get a load of the weirdos" sense; they gave them just enough of a win to show why everyone else puts up with the weirdness. We didn't really need to know much about Kongou other than she was built in England and she -said so-.

And if you think about it, they introduced the three Sendai girls in more or less the same context, so they worked out too.

I dunno. I'm torn, about half because the execution isn't as good as it ought to be, and half because it's an inherently creepy concept if you believe that these guys represented the bad guys. The show's context is so much "this is a lot like what the IJN actually did" without any of the context of why that wasn't such a good thing that I am left wondering... did the creators intend to whitewash it to this extent, or did they seriously go in knowing this much about the little details and so little of the big picture? Usually I want to know if the writer is in on their own joke, but here I'd almost rather that it be a product of ignorance. The alternative is -extremely- distasteful.

Posted by: Avatar_exADV at January 30, 2015 07:24 PM (zJsIy)

11

I've concluded that when the Japanese think back to the time before the war, they think the Army was bad, but they think the Navy was good.

I think that's because the Army interfered constantly with the government and eventually took over completely, but the Navy largely stayed out of politics.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at January 30, 2015 07:58 PM (+rSRq)

12 I ran into inversion on the positionality before. For example, there was a book, basically a big dead-tree fanfic for The Wizard of Oz, called "The Wicked Witch Of The West", IIRC. Closer to home, Gurren-Lagann Parallel Works #4 had Viral defending peace against an evil Simon.

Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at January 30, 2015 08:44 PM (RqRa5)

13 "The show's context is so much "this is a lot like what the IJN actually did" without any of the context of why that wasn't such a good thing that I am left wondering... did the creators intend to whitewash it to this extent, or did they seriously go in knowing this much about the little details and so little of the big picture?
One, this is exactly what I've been thinking. and Two; dammit, Avatar, this was the premise of my entire next commentary!  Too much of this series is done within the context of WWII to ignore real-life WWII.

Posted by: Ben at January 31, 2015 08:06 AM (S4UJw)

14 "That sort of thing worked okay when you're talking about a card game aimed at military otaku who of course know which cruisers are in which classes; in an anime you can't let that carry the show"

Why is a card game allowed to be aimed at military otaku, but an anime not? Not all anime has to be for everyone.

Posted by: Jordi Vermeulen at January 31, 2015 11:42 AM (RGjwf)

15 Why is a card game allowed to be aimed at military otaku, but an anime not?

Amen.  The tanks in GuP are at least as important as the humans, why is Kancolle being held to a different standard?

Posted by: Wonderduck at January 31, 2015 01:36 PM (jGQR+)

16

My point with this post was that this show is not for me. I didn't say it wasn't for anyone.

There are a lot of shows which are not for audience demographics which include me (for instance, I'll probably never watch a Pony show). And that's fine. As Torin once said, "If we agreed about everything, one of us would be unnecessary."

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at January 31, 2015 02:41 PM (+rSRq)

17 Peter Payne has an explanation for the charm Atago gave Fubuki in ep 3.

Posted by: at February 01, 2015 03:33 AM (XIprt)

18 The attack on Wake Island was the basis for the Spring 2014 campaign; Midway was the Summer 2014 one. (Fall 2014 was the Western New Guinea Campaign.) If they do Midway, it'll probably be at the end of the series, with character development in between. Ep. 4 has the ramifications of  Kisaragi's sinking.

Posted by: muon at February 05, 2015 05:17 AM (XIprt)

19 I assume you're referring to the online game.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at February 05, 2015 08:55 AM (+rSRq)

20 Yes. There's a manga series taking place in an alternate world where WWII didn't take place, but the game seems to be set after it and the ship girls are reincarnations. Kisaragi introduces herself  with "At Wake Island, I fought bravely under the attack of annoying F4F Fighters." That's where most of the characterization is, but they couldn't do it with the anime.
It hasn't been revealed what the Abyssals are, so speculation is that they're sunken IJN ships, sunken Allied ships, or both. Some of the bosses (called demon or princess, who have the only enemy lines and who don't seem to exist in the anime) are based on Allied installations, like the Isolated Island Demon personifying the Wake Island airfield. The Aircraft Carrier Princess's voice turns normal when she sinks, so some people think she's the USS Yorktown or the IJN Kaga.

Posted by: muon at February 06, 2015 04:47 AM (XIprt)

21 There are some four manga series out there, and none of them are internally consistent with each other, let alone with the actual game.  They have the same concept (shipgirls), and then go their own separate ways from there.  I fully expect the anime to have it's own line of reality... much like High School of the Dead did, Muon.

Posted by: Wonderduck at February 06, 2015 11:32 AM (jGQR+)

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