September 17, 2007

I talk like what?

One of my regular readers will certainly understand this problem.

Of course, the solution is obvious: watch a lot of Dragon Ball Z and learn the way that Goku and Piccolo and Vegeta talk. Then you won't sound like a girl. (You'll sound like a lower-class anime roughneck, but at least you won't sound like a girl.)

UPDATE: When I was wondering about the word omigoto and asked about it, one of the reasons I was confused by it is that when Harumi says it, she largely omits the "g" sound. I had noticed that she also pronounced the proper name Moriguchi a bit strangely, changing the "g" sound and softening it a lot, making it sound like "ng".

I now wonder if she (or her seiyuu) was speaking with a Tohoku-ben. I just ran into a Wikipedia article on regional accents and it says:

In addition, all unvoiced stops become voiced intervocalically, rendering the pronunciation of the word "kato" (trained rabbit) as [kado]. However, unlike the high vowel neutralization, this does not result in new homophones, as all voiced stops are pre-nasalized, meaning that the word "kado" (corner) is roughly pronounced [kando]. This is particularly noticeable with the "g" sound, which is nasalized sufficiently that it sounds very much like the English "ng" as in "thing", with the stop of the hard "g" almost entirely lost.

That sounds like what I was hearing. But it's hard to believe that it was on purpose. It doesn't make sense for the character. She grew up in Tenmo, which is a fictional city located about where the real city of Odawara is, on the coast south-west of Tokyo. They wouldn't use a Tohoku-ben there, and no one else does that I've noticed. But I could have missed it. I don't have an ear for accents yet, at least to the point where I pick out consistent patterns. I notice the occasional -chama or -han distorted honorific, for example. But even though I know the two kids in Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi are speaking with an Osaka-ben, I couldn't tell you how it's different.

At the very least, no one else in Shingu does those strange things to their "g" sounds. That I do know.

I ran into that Wikipedia article because I was trying to make the point elsewhere that one reason the guy in that CS Monitor article was having trouble understanding the difference in male and female speech patterns was because he was also trying to untangle keigo and regional accents, and probably didn't have a big enough sample of distinct native speakers of all kinds to really pick out what was what. For instance, picking up edokko speech patterns wouldn't necessarily make him sound male; it would just make him sound uncultured and uneducated.

UPDATE: Harumi's seiyuu is Asano Masumi, who also did Saga in Sugar and Hakufu in Ikki Tousen. She was born in Akita, on the NW coast of Honshu. That's the heart of the Tohoku-ben.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste in Japanese at 02:18 PM | Comments (5) | Add Comment
Post contains 503 words, total size 3 kb.

1 On the other hand, one of the classic from the 80s "Maison Ikkoku" is like by Japanese teachers in America because of a couple of things:

1.  It has a large cast, ranging from grade school kids, college students, housewives, businessmen, etc.  You don't get stuck learning from just one kind of accent or class.  The accent is mostly standard Tokyo Kento accent.
2.  The cast pronounce every words clearly.
3.  The words are spoken slowly enough that the teacher can use it for examples.

Posted by: BigFire at September 17, 2007 02:54 PM (i5qPG)

2 The Osaka accent is easy to identify when speakers are using regional terminology - there's a few places where it's not just a matter of pronunciation, but entirely different words. "arahen" instead of "arimasen", "ookini" instead of "arigatou", that kind of thing. Once you sort out who's the Osaka-jin and who's not, you can start sorting out the rest of it. Don't feel bad, it took me years to even notice, and I was being paid to pay attention to it. Other accents are really hard... we ran into some Hiroshima-ben in Daiguard and my basic reaction was "what the heck?" Didn't know it was a regional accent until I called Shoko in, and she was blown away that they used it herself.

For an antidote, try Cromartie. Only one female character and she doesn't speak. One guy with normal Japanese and lots and lots of punks being excessively manly. I laughed until I bled. ;p

Posted by: Avatar_exADV at September 17, 2007 03:37 PM (LMDdY)

3 Using "ng" for the "g" sound is probably female speech. In Sailor Moon, Usagi's (Sailor Moon's) mother calls her "Usangi".

Posted by: Jim Burdo at September 17, 2007 05:15 PM (M/tTd)

4 Hm, boy/girl speech and regional accents?  Hey, maybe that would explain this.  Growing up I always thought "arigato" was pronounced like it's spoken in the song Electric Avenue, with an emphasis on the third syllable.  But I've listened to several animes now--the two that come to mind are Serial Experiments Lain and Haibane Renmei, and their I've heard it pronounced quite differently--the leading "a" is changed in a way I can't quite describe, and there's much less emphasis on the third syllable, and more on the second (or perhaps it's just a matter of lengthening the vowel.)  Could that be a regional thing?  I've been having fun reading the subs instead of listening to the dubs, because I'm learning to pick up borrowed English words, and one or two Japanese words as well.  Plus the dialog is usually a lot better, or at least funnier, in the subs.  I almost blew Coke out of my nose the first time I read Kusanagi saying in the beginning that one of the other cops might not be able to hear her because it was that time of the month.  That was NOT in the English dub.

Posted by: RickC at September 18, 2007 08:02 AM (gRoK1)

5 I'm pretty sure Jim is wrong about that. Now that I'm sensitized to it, I'm hearing a lot of characters in Shingu softening their G's, both men and women.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at September 18, 2007 08:31 AM (+rSRq)

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