September 29, 2008

Fate/Stay Night -- spoilers

So I finally located the Wikipedia article which reveals pretty much everything about the series: SPOILERS

And it's pretty nihilistic. I'm not really sure anymore that I want to watch any of the rest of it. It just doesn't seem to be my kind of show.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste in General Anime at 01:37 PM | Comments (14) | Add Comment
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1 You've got to admit that it has the cutest that you've ever seen. ;p

I shan't press you on the topic; tastes do differ. Gotta say, though, that the Wiki article didn't do much for me back when I first found it; it's a little confusing (not that the plot is, y'know, straightforward). Most of the endings are a lot happier than they let on, though, and "most everyone survives" is close enough to possible that they brought 'em all back for the sequel, Hollow Ataraxia. (Though, to hear tell, the main merit of said sequel is Rin's magical girl transformation...)

Posted by: Avatar_exADV at September 29, 2008 03:45 PM (pfysU)

2 Steven, the article makes it sound much drier than it was. I BAAAWED my eyes out . But like I said, it's not a great among greats kind of show. IMHO it beats pants off Shana, but you finished that and quit this, whereas I did the opposite. Maybe tastes.

Posted by: Pete Zaitcev at September 29, 2008 03:58 PM (/ppBw)

3 The thing about Shana is that it is written to the romangst formula.  F/SN is written to the tragicangst formula.  I thought, when I finished it that

Then I read an earlier version of the spoilers (they've been tremendously augmented since then.)  I really felt like, after reading the earlier version, that the writers must have hated their characters for all the crap they put them through. But the final straw was when I read about .  After that, I was really crushed, and very down on the series for some time.

About the only way I can deal with it is to assume that timelines branch, and he was from another one.  Given the multi-pathed nature of the game, that's not a stretch.

Posted by: ubu at September 29, 2008 04:13 PM (K4l5M)


There's long precedent for branching timelines in anime. It's a major factor in the Android/Cell story arc in DBZ, for example, in particular as a result of time travel by Trunks.

The way that Toriyama explained it later, every time Trunks arrived somewhere going backward on a time jump, there was a branch point. In one future, Trunks is killed by Cell who steals his time machine. In another branch, Trunks kills Cell in that attempt; we're shown it at the end of "Cell Games".

I saw a chart online one time that showed all the branches and how they related to the overall story as told.

So it is far from implausible that they were thinking in terms of branching timelines when dealing with Archer in this story -- especially since he was deliberately hoping to change his own past.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at September 29, 2008 04:28 PM (+rSRq)

5 I've been wanting to mention Ubu's second spoiler for some time...

It's one of the areas that left me uncertain about the show.  On one hand it is different twist that there is canon outside of the anime.  They did hint at the origin but the hints were weak, weak, weak. Also, they did encorperate the outside material better than .hack ever did.

On the other hand, it left a large portion of what should have been an interesting story untold.  Time that could have been used instead of the constant barrage of Shirou's "oh whoa is me... I'm not good enough" or yelling "Sabre!!!!!1!!!" crap.

Posted by: Bear at September 29, 2008 05:04 PM (VgTpG)

6 Oh. ICK.  I just went back and read some more about Sakura, Shinji, Fate/Zero so on.  Steven was right; Sakura knew a hell of a lot more than she let on.  As to the how and why, that pretty much seals it.  The writers of this series were rotten, rat bastards who just want to make their characters suffer.

Suddenly, I'm glad my order still hasn't arrived. 

Posted by: ubu at September 29, 2008 05:15 PM (K4l5M)


Posted by: Avatar_exADV at September 29, 2008 05:21 PM (pfysU)

8 As to the rotten rat-bastardness, yeah, basically correct. You oughta see Tsukihime, which had two fairly straight-up stories with happy-ish endings like Fate, then three "other" routes full of incest, child abuse, rape, and other unpleasantness. (The anime does not have those things in it! But it's hinted at, so you can conclude that those things did in fact happen if you'd already played the game. If you didn't like Fate, don't watch Tsukihime either.)

But I got hooked by the doujin anyway, not the show. ^_^;

Posted by: Avatar_exADV at September 29, 2008 05:37 PM (pfysU)

F/SN is still on my list of "anime to see", but since I haven't made much progress on that this year (I guess Avatar counts, sort of), it's not going to happen anytime soon.

It's kinda quirky, but personally, when it comes to anime these days, I almost *want* some degree of spoilage.  Too many series have Eva (or worse) endings, and I just hate a punch-you-in-the-gut-The-End ending.  I guess it goes to why I read or watch fiction in the first place, but I'm willing to put up with all sorts of nastiness to the protagonists on the condition that they (or at least the ones I care about the most) make it out o.k. in the end.  If a series refuses to do that, or worse, outright delights in crucifying the characters at the end, then I'd rather kinda know that up front so that I can watch it with a "popcorn" attitude, if I watch it at all.

Posted by: BigD at September 29, 2008 10:32 PM (LjWr8)


Well, you sure don't want to watch Venus versus Virus then. I haven't been so pissed off by an ending since Mahoromatic.

I know what you mean about a bad ending ruining a good series; I had that experience with Cowboy Bebop. Which is why I included the "Is the ending satisfying" section in my reviews.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at September 29, 2008 10:49 PM (+rSRq)

11 I hunted up a clip of the finale few minutes of Venus Vs Virus on youtube after you wrote that, and I concur with your take.  Not on my list, anywhere.

Posted by: BigD at September 30, 2008 04:51 PM (LjWr8)

12 The manga ended in the last couple of months, and I've wondered just how the mangaka finished up the story.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at September 30, 2008 05:09 PM (+rSRq)

13 As to the "Nice Boat" the guy was a schlepp, and the neither of the women were much better by the end of the show. Not even the dead one was likeable.

That's not true in F/SN, which is an example of just one bad thing after another happening to good people.  They were right to leave Sakura's back story out of the animé, even at the cost of having to fill time with Shirou moping about.

Posted by: ubu at September 30, 2008 09:15 PM (K4l5M)

14 Watch the spoilers, please.

Posted by: Steven Den Beste at September 30, 2008 09:33 PM (+rSRq)

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