February 14, 2011
Master of Magic -- things I learned today
If your enemy's capital is protected by nightshade, Call the Void bounces. But Corruption can be used on the squares containing the nightshade, and once you've done that, you can nuke away to your heart's content. (I wish I'd figured that out a lot sooner.)
Paladins are a real problem if your main striking force is wizards.
Draconians are still my favorite race to play.
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February 11, 2011
MOM -- rut
I've gotten into a bit of a rut in Master of Magic. I've played about five games in a row as Myrran, with Draconians, 2 white books, 3 green, and 3 red.
Or some variation on that. The last game I was Myrran and Node Mastery, 2 white, 2 green, 2 red, and 1 blue.
So I'm going to try something completely different. Myrran (that part's fine), Dark Elves, 4 black and 4 red. Should be amusing.
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I can't remember, is there a "random race, random spellbooks/advantages" button?
Posted by: metaphysician at February 11, 2011 07:33 PM (hD30M)
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January 31, 2011
Master of Magic -- I HATE AIR ELEMENTALS!!
There are all kinds of summons in this game, ranging from the miserable (e.g. skeletons) to the astounding (death knights). There are three elemental summons, too: earth elementals (green), fire elementals (red), and air elementals (blue).
Earth and fire elementals are decent units, but air elementals are absurdly dangerous. They're flying speed 5, and they're invisible, and they have poison immunity, stoning immunity, weapon immunity, and immunity to death magic.
I'd rather fight a Djinn or a Storm Giant, I tell you. I've had no end of grief with them the last couple of games. In one of those games I simply gave up, and any blue node guarded by them stayed unclaimed.
This last game I got stubborn. There was one Myrran blue node guarded by fully four of the bastards. It was the last Myrran node I hadn't conquered. I lost something like three stacks trying to take it.
I was playing Draconians again, but I had captured a Dark Elf city, and had it fully developed. My problem was that I didn't have any blue magic, so no True Sight, which meant no range strikes, which meant that even Warlocks would have been helpless. I ended up building the Dark Elf city up to a fantastic stable, then building 8 nightmares, then cast Eldritch Weapon, Flaming Weapon, Holy Weapon, and Invulnerability on every one of them. And I seriously considered juicing them even further. (I also had Holy Armor and Stone Flesh.)
That stack finally won, but I still lost one of the 8 nightmares and several others were badly wounded. Air Elementals aren't supposed to be that high; that summon spell is the same level as Earth Elementals, which are nowhere near as tough!
I also hate fighting Great Wyrms, but those really are supposed to be tough; it's the same level as Great Drakes, Archangels, and Demon Lords.
I think that Air Elementals are a case where Barcia loused up his play balance.
This game I played Myrran, 2 Green (so I can get Wall of Stone), 2 White (Guardian Spirit), and 4 Red, and over the course of the game I found three more Red, plus a retort of Nature Mastery. What with 7 red books, I ended up with a couple of the "totally foul up an enemy's city" spells that Red magic specializes in, and really ruined Jafar's day.
I think next time I'll try 2 white, 2 green, and 4 blue. Should be interesting. And man, I do like the Draconians.
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Air elementals suck. One solution is to play blue and summon your own. Another is to throw the spell that eliminates summoned creatures (forget what color it is); of course your front-line troops have to last long enough to cast it a few times. I know I've got another method that deals with them fairly well, but I don't remember for sure. I think it's a mass of veteran or better slingers (with magic or better weapons) at point blank range. I'll lose most of them, but they're relatively cheap by the late game when I start after nodes with air elementals.
Posted by: ubu at January 31, 2011 06:48 PM (GfCSm)
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I actually go in a different direction altogether... I don't take nodes early on unless they have fairly easy guardians. I focus instead on expanding economically, and shift cash-mana later in the game when I need mana.
I'm probably missing out on a bit by doing so, but it allows me to explore faster and hit neutral cities sooner, because I didn't lose stacks trying to take nodes.
The one thing that will end my game in a hurry is a high-level wandering monster sacking my lightly-defended capitol or major cities; I just don't defend them well enough until late-game. Myrran is actually kinda worse about this, because a monster can hop on a road square in the middle of nowhere, and then hit *any* city on the chain.
Posted by: BigD at January 31, 2011 07:13 PM (LjWr8)
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That's one of the reasons I like the draconians and green magic. Wall of Stone gets city walls up fast, and if the entrance is held by a flying creature, any ground-crawler that comes in just stands and looks at the city and doesn't do anything. (Unless they're missile users.)
Meanwhile, if you get corporeal fliers, that's what the "web" spell is for. Once they recover from the web, they're ground-pounders and they just look.
Nine times out of ten, when my capital gets attacked, I just hit the auto button.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at January 31, 2011 10:32 PM (+rSRq)
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January 29, 2011
Master of Magic
I've been overdosing on Master of Orion. Though there's a lot of variety in that game, based on which race you play, which races are your opponents, and which technologies are missing from your research tree, it was getting old.
Back when all this stuff appeared on GOG, I also bought Master of Magic. And I played a few games. But the problem was that I kept running into my opponents long before I was ready. What I really wanted was to be left alone to develop my empire in peace.
Finally, a few days ago it occurred to me that there was a good way to do that: be Myrran. So I started a game with trolls, 4 white books, 4 green books and Myrran. But I loused it up, and quit.
Yesterday I tried it again. And it went a whole lot better. Not the most sterling win of my life, but a win nonetheless.
Some of that was luck. I was playing "Easy" and one opponent, and it turned out to be Freya (swoon), who is all-green. I eventually researched Nature's Awareness, and got a look at her empire and her army. And it was rather terifying, in fact. She probably had three times as many units as I did, and a lot of them were high class (e.g. priests, paladins). she easily had four times as many cities as I did.
But she didn't have as many nodes as I had by that point, and hers were Arcanian so my Myrran nodes yielded twice as much power. And I started having luck. I ended up with three red books found in various lairs and nodes, as well as one blue book and an additional white book. And I had some luck on which spells they gave me. By the end of the game I had Nature's Awareness, Great Wasting, and Planar Seal running.
Which meant I could watch her, and her land was becoming fouled, and she couldn't get to me. She had gotten through one tower and sent one scout unit through it before I got the Planar Seal going, but I hunted that one down and killed it easily.
And then I lucked into the Call Chaos spell, which is a lot of fun, if you're into mindless destruction. Costs 500 mana to cast, and it nukes any city, having a chance of destroying each building, and killing defenders and citizens. I had, by that point, captured all 15 Myrran nodes, and all my cities were mature and on trade goods, so I had a huge income. Most of my mana income went into spell research, and I ended up converting maybe 35,000 gold into mana (over the course of a couple of hundred turns) in order to power a major series of nuke attacks on Freya's cities. With my skill level, I could set one off every third turn.
By the time I was through with her capital, it only had one citizen and the only building in it was her tower (which can't be destroyed this way). I nuked all her other cities multiple times.
And it was interesting to watch how her units started disappearing nearly everywhere. Between all the corruption from the Great Wasting, and the corruption created by the Call Chaos, and the loss of things like farmer's markets and granaries, her economy was wrecked and she had to disband most of her military units. She couldn't feed them, and she couldn't pay them. The summoned ones, she didn't have the mana for.
By the time I was ready to cast the Spell of Mastery, most of her cities had no defenders at all. I watched two of her cities get trashed by wandering monsters, and three of them get conquered by raiders.
And she had nothing left to threaten me with when I started casting it. Finish.
I tend to favor green magic for a lot of reasons, but it has to be admitted that red magic is loads of fun.
But next time I think I'll try three white and five green. I think white magic is the most useless color, at the higher levels, but I just gotta have Guardian Spirits! And Healing! And Prayer!
UPDATE: Turns out I had a saved game left from before my rampage, so here's what Freya's area looked like before, and after.
The AI really values ships, for some reason. While most of Freya's cities had nothing in them for defense, she had nine ships left sitting around doing nothing.
I've seen that in games with blue mages, too. They'll end up with piles of floating islands, just sitting next to their cities accomplishing nothing whatever except to soak up mana for upkeep.
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It seems to be just about universal that in every strategy game where it is relevant, the AI just can't handle navies properly. I think it's probably because the importance can vary so highly upon the map layout in ways that aren't always easy to program in.
Posted by: Aaron Nowack at January 29, 2011 08:36 PM (C5vYN)
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I like going Myrran for a change in scenery, as well. Then downside is, when you do a 4-opponent game on the harder difficulties and draw the dragon wizard, you can be in a world of hurt. It just takes *longer* to build up on that side, and all of the neutral villages are much tougher, which also slows you down. Then, you suddenly run into waves of dragon units that roll you up before you can get to the advanced units that can stop them.
Posted by: BigD at January 29, 2011 08:58 PM (dZQ+F)
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The tactic I used wouldn't necessarily have worked against anyone. Freya, being all-green, was vulnerable to it because she didn't have any reasonable way to get rid of my planar seal and didn't have any way to reach out and touch me after it was in place.
But against a blue mage, the planar seal would have gotten dispelled. And against a red mage, I'd have been getting nuked in turn. Against a white mage, all the cities would have been protected and my Great Wasting and Call Chaos spells wouldn't have worked.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at January 29, 2011 09:24 PM (+rSRq)
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I enjoy playing for maximum "stuff" rather than maximum score. Max score basically means "11 black books, spend all your time summoning Wraiths, use them to take over the world ASAP." Time has way too much weight in the scoring equation.
So my usual build is Myrran... as Jafar, since a mostly-sorcery wizard is the most annoying thing to play against, and the computer doesn't change too much stuff when it customizes its wizard(s).
Four colors of books to start with, and Node Mastery (which lets you cast spells against the node's guardians without having the node try to dispel anything not of its own color. Also multiplies the mana you get from your nodes). Four colors also lets you trade as many spells as possible with other wizards when you first meet them, too (after 3 or 5 turns, they'll hate you too much to trade anymore, since a principal part of the so-called A.I. in this game is "screw diplomacy, gang up on the human.").
Keeping Myrror to myself requires either Planar Seal, or invisible units to guard any breached towers (dark elves can make nightblades which are naturally invis, so I don't raze dark elf cities if I'm playing as something else). The computer units will attack your invisible guard if it stays in its starting square on the combat map, even though the computer shouldn't be able to see it... but if you step out of the starting square, it'll stop cheating. Then hold down the space bar, because after 50 turns it's a draw and the attacker has to retreat.
Also, since another part of the A.I. is "have all those random bad effects happen to the human", my six best cities other than my capitol each get a hero stationed in them. A city with a hero can't rebel and turn into a neutral city. Nothing more "fun" than spending 150 turns rebuilding all the structures you accidentally flattened re-taking your own town...
Posted by: Mikeski at January 29, 2011 11:42 PM (GbSQF)
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When I play Myrran, I prefer the Dark Elves because every population generates 0.5 mana. Helps make up for the lack of conquerable nodes early, plus they get warlocks. Doombolt is nasty.
As for color, I like the red/green combo, but I've played a few games as all blue, and given time to build up, that is one mean color. Least favorite? Death magic. Too weak early, and not so hot later on either, IMHO. Of course, if I could survive long enough to find out, it would help.
Possibly the greatest game never to get a sequel. Maybe Mule, if we go that far back...
Posted by: ubu at January 29, 2011 11:50 PM (GfCSm)
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Elemental: War of Magic was hyped as a spiritual sequel. Sadly, the reviews were poor.
Posted by: metaphysician at January 30, 2011 08:24 AM (hD30M)
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I have Elemental: War of Magic. It had problems initially, several bad design decisions. However, supposedly they've patched it and made major changes. I'll update it sometime and give it another shot.
Posted by: DrHeinous at January 31, 2011 07:55 AM (/Y+Yb)
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Also, I tend to favor Myrror for one reason: the roads. All enchanted by default, so a small force can rapidly move and take things.
I
like the dark elves as well (both for the mana and the warlocks). The
only problem is that they don't have engineers, so no road building!
My first priority is usually to find and hammer a dwarven/gnoll city, and turn out several engineers...
Posted by: DrHeinous at January 31, 2011 07:55 AM (/Y+Yb)
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Dark Elves grow slowly, don't they?
I just played another game, this time as Draconians. They were pretty good.
The reason I like Trolls and Draconians is that they are particularly good at defending their cities against monsters and raiders. Once you get city walls up (a green spell) with Draconians, few attackers can do anything. You hit "auto" and the battle ends.
And I did a lot of ass-kicking with a stack of Draconian wizards.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at January 31, 2011 08:04 AM (+rSRq)
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Every game designer gives bonuses to the engineers. No one ever gives anything to us bureaucrats!
Actually, once in Starfire (boardgame), I tried to make up a "Bureaucratic" government, but quickly gave up when I realized all the negatives meant it would be a pushover.
"Administrator, the enemy fleet is firing!"
"Clerk, you are not authorized to engage in 'Suppression of Mass Anti-Social Behavior' until you complete your Form 235-X4.
Both volumes!"
Yeah, not going to work...
Posted by: ubu at January 31, 2011 08:05 AM (i7ZAU)
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Every game designer gives bonuses to the engineers. No one ever gives anything to us bureaucrats!
That's because engineers are cool!
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at January 31, 2011 08:36 AM (+rSRq)
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I'm surprised no game has used bureaucrat units ( scribes, clerks, etc ), not as beneficial units, but *required* ones. They don't give you bonuses. . . but if you don't have an adequate number for your empire, you take efficiency penalties of some form or another.
( having too many is bad enough on its own, as each unit would presumably consume upkeep, even if its unnecessary. . . )
Posted by: metaphysician at January 31, 2011 11:41 AM (hD30M)
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The Rogue Trader RPG (pen and paper) actually has a "seneschal" class, come to think of it, but that game's more focused towards management than straight combat anyway. (And its engineer class is still significantly cooler, if bugnuts...)
Posted by: Avatar_exADV at January 31, 2011 12:07 PM (mRjOr)
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Not played the game, but my guess is a Seneschal is still useful. Sounds like code for "social character." In a *lot* of games, having somebody who can negotiate, handle bureaucratic red tape, and lie and bluff their ass off, is as useful or more than being able to swing a sword or shoot a gun.
Posted by: metaphysician at January 31, 2011 01:57 PM (hD30M)
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December 19, 2010
Ah, the good old days
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"What's New with Phil & Dixie." Without a doubt, the very first webcomic... years before there was such a thing as a web in the first place.
I really should dig out my old Dragon Magazine collection...
Posted by: Wonderduck at December 19, 2010 12:16 AM (W8Men)
Posted by: Douglas Oosting at December 19, 2010 09:26 AM (N9Lwt)
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at December 19, 2010 10:22 AM (+rSRq)
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Whew! I managed to make my saving throw and escape after only twenty minutes...
Posted by: ubu at December 19, 2010 11:26 AM (GfCSm)
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Oh yes,
I know, Steven. Well do
I know. I've spent many an hour over there.
growf
Posted by: Wonderduck at December 19, 2010 12:04 PM (W8Men)
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I have a Growf.
I think I got it when I ordered
Buck Godot from their online store.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at December 19, 2010 06:21 PM (PiXy!)
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I got the three compilations they put out. I think they even finally got around to Sex & D&D....
Posted by: Mauser at December 20, 2010 05:35 PM (cZPoz)
Posted by: J Greely at December 20, 2010 06:01 PM (2XtN5)
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December 13, 2010
So there I was...
So there I was, attacking a Psilon planet with a fleet of mediums. All the defenders were gone, so it was just me and their missile bases. They had a class-V planetary shield, and also had class-V shields on the missile base, total 10.
I had a hundred medium ships, each of which carried two megabolt cannons. They do 2-20 points of damage. And in two rounds of fire, 400 shots, they didn't do a single point of damage. By all rights they should have won easily.
I've noticed this before: planets in MOO seem much more resistant to beam attacks than they ought to be. Is this a bug, or is it something I missed in the manual?
(I came back a bit later with a new class of ship which was carrying Omega-V bombs, which do 20-50 points of damage, and I obliterated the place.)
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I'm not certain, but I think that planets get some sort of natural bonus to account for the fact that they're big and reasonably inert. I'm pretty sure that planetary shields in MOO2 were superior to their mathematical equivalent in space (although the exact mechanic was somewhat different than in MOO).
Posted by: BigD at December 14, 2010 01:54 AM (LjWr8)
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Beams are useless, and missiles very reduced in effect (which is backwards, they should be more effective in atmosphere). But this is meant to make you include bombs, which otherwise, wouldn't be worth it.
Posted by: ubu at December 14, 2010 05:07 AM (GfCSm)
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If memory serves (and it may not), beams and torpedoes get half damage against planets, before the reduction from shields; missiles and bombs do full damage.
Posted by: Griffin at December 14, 2010 08:18 AM (pqWeu)
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I am 99.99% certain that beams get halved when used against planets,
with that occurring before shields are applied. So the megabolt's 2-20
against 10 total shields is completely ineffective.
I am not sure about torpedos and missiles. Bombs obviously get full damage.
Posted by: haphazard1 at December 14, 2010 04:13 PM (KTbd7)
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Everything you guys are saying is consistent with what I've been observing, so I guess that's the answer.
Likely they did this for play balancing purposes. If beams were 100% effective against planets, no one would ever need bombs.
Or hardly ever. I don't carry them much myself since they're useless against enemy ships.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at December 14, 2010 04:49 PM (+rSRq)
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Supposedly the atmosphere absorbs the energy from beams, making it less effective.
Posted by: Ymarsakar at December 20, 2010 07:39 PM (tUhkS)
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October 26, 2010
MOO -- three opponents
The big problem I've been having with MOO is that the games I enjoy most are those where I can spend quite a while developing my empire and doing research before I make contact with any enemy. To that end I've usually played against a single enemy on a Huge board, and I've taken to hacking the save game file to turn on the visibility bit for their home world. Then I search the board until I find it, and if it's too close I toss that game and start over.
Which is really painful and dull. This last game I tried something new. I found some documentation online about the save file format and it showed me where the coordinates are stored for each planet, and I tried moving the home world of my enemy to the opposite corner of the board. I wondered whether it would work, and it worked fine.
So this last game I played against three opponents, and set things up so that each of us four started in a different corner. I played the Klackons, and my opponents were the Sakkra, the Psilons, and the Mrrshan.
And it really was an interesting game. I had put the Psilons in the opposite corner so that they were furthest away. I took out the Sakkra first, at least enough so they weren't a challenge anymore. But by the time I started fighting the Psilons, their tech was as high as mine. They had ships which were nearly as good as mine were, and their damned planets (at least the oldest, most developed ones) had 24 points of shields on their missile bases. Here I was, sailing around with a fleet of 20 huge ships full of Stellar Converters and Pulse Phasors and Antimatter bombs and I could barely scratch his planets. Bombing would kill maybe 8 million people a turn.
It turned out that the only way for me to neutralize his planets rapidly was to invade, for quite a while. Eventually I researched the Mauler Weapon, and then I was able to build a ship which could destroy his planets in a single bombing round. (20 Maulers per ship, 15 ships, each also carrying a Black Hole Generator.)
By the time I had genocided the Psilons and Sakkra and turned my attention to the Mrrshan, they had actually developed quite a ways. Usually the Mrrshan are no threat, and they ended up not being this time either because the ships I had eventually developed for the Psilons cut through the Mrrshan defenses like a hot knife through soft butter.
But it was quite a struggle for most of the game, not least of which was because for a long time my fastest drive was warp 3. I eventually had to steal warp 5 from the Psilons to remain competitive.
I think the Psilons and the Klackons are the two races I most fear playing against.
Anyway, hacking the save game file at the beginning is making it possible for me to have more fun with the game.
UPDATE: It might be interesting to put each of the four opponents in the middle of a different side of the board.
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The big problem I've been having with MOO is that the games I enjoy most
are those where I can spend quite a while developing my empire and
doing research before I make contact with any enemy.
That's my favorite for turn-based wargames as well. I've often wondered why there's no option in the games I've tried to set the enemy starting distances to Far, Close, or Random.
Posted by: Siergen at October 26, 2010 03:12 PM (Xh3Fu)
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Another thing that can make the game uninteresting is when the opponent isn't any good. Another interesting possibility would be to toss in three or four opponents with their home worlds all right next to each other, and let evolution sort them out. Presumably whichever survives would be strong and powerful. (Or maybe not.)
MOO does enforce a minimum distance between starting planets, but it's pretty small and it isn't tunable.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at October 26, 2010 03:42 PM (+rSRq)
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September 26, 2010
Master of Orion -- nightmare ships
Here's a medium bomber:
Here's a scout:
How, you may be wondering, did I get all that into such small packages, at such a low price?
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Now that is pushing the tech trees to the limit.
I am a bit curious about the combat speed 1, but maybe the sub space teleporter makes that immaterial? I have never gotten that far into the tree and gotten that particular special.
Pretty funny to see the automater repair special on a medium hull. Of course, that medium hull has 108 HP....
Posted by: haphazard1 at September 26, 2010 09:34 PM (KTbd7)
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Exactly so. When you have the teleporter, the only benefit from maneuver is missile def, and that's covered other ways in this design.
Also, if you use the teleporter, you get first shot. Equip the ship right, or use enough of them, and the other side won't live long enough to fire their missiles.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at September 26, 2010 09:56 PM (+rSRq)
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Out of curiousity, what is "cruel brutal damage"?
Posted by: metaphysician at September 28, 2010 05:18 AM (OLeXB)
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I never figured that out.
I think it's just an acknowledgement that, aside from the Death Ray, it's the most powerful beam in the game.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at September 28, 2010 07:10 AM (+rSRq)
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I suspect cruel, brutal damage bypasses armor and also behaves like biological weapons as applicable (like when attacking planets), but could never set up a good test for it.
Posted by: bkw at September 28, 2010 07:52 AM (34O+x)
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It doesn't reduce the carrying capacity of a planet. It just kills people and destroys factories, like any other energy weapon.
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at September 28, 2010 09:40 AM (+rSRq)
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September 02, 2010
Master of Orion -- random disasters
Some disasters are more disastrous than others.
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Quick! Apply for TARP funds before it's too late!
Posted by: ubu at September 02, 2010 11:32 AM (i7ZAU)
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Heh. Great screenshot. The virus event can be like this and make you laugh, or it can cost you tens of thousands of RP and make you cry.
Posted by: haphazard1 at September 02, 2010 05:08 PM (xF0tu)
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Semifinal Fantasy
Final: "pertaining to or coming at the end; last in place, order, or time"
So Final Fantasy is up to version 14? How "final" can that really be, anyway?
(This is like how the word "ultimate" is routinely abused, one of my pet peeves.)
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Actually, there is a reason for the name of sorts. Way back in the late 80s, Squaresoft was coming close to bankruptcy. And so, Hironobu Sakaguchi did his best to release one last game before they closed. . .
. . .and called it Final Fantasy. However, ironically, it was such a smash hit as to not only save Squaresoft, but pretty much define the company from there out.
( *cough* That said, No True FF Fan counts the upcoming FF14, or the prior FF11. Those are MMOs, bleck. *ahem* )
Posted by: metaphysician at September 02, 2010 10:39 AM (OLeXB)
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Square expected
Final Fantasy to be their last game, as they were nearly broke when they started it and put all their remaining money into the game. Things turned out slightly differently.
At least, that's the story. Don't know how accurate it is.
Posted by: Pixy Misa at September 02, 2010 10:44 AM (PiXy!)
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And that's what I get for being easily dist - ooh, shiny!
Posted by: Pixy Misa at September 02, 2010 10:45 AM (PiXy!)
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I heard that story about Square and Final Fantasy many times, but once upon a time, TechTV did a profile on Nobuo Uematsu that mentioned that Hironobu Sakaguchi originally planned on retiring after releasing Final Fantasy, and that was why the game was named so. That strikes as equally possible.
C.T.
Posted by: cxt217 at September 02, 2010 01:14 PM (D8wum)
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He was planning on retiring at age 25? (per Wikipedia)
Posted by: Andrew F. at September 02, 2010 02:13 PM (wVyZX)
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Maybe retiring from game design, so he could work in a field that had a future. As it was becoming apparent that game design was a dead end.
Posted by: Boviate at September 02, 2010 02:16 PM (PJNgE)
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Considering how they're running the series into the ground....
Posted by: Jaked at September 02, 2010 03:45 PM (EjkUJ)
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In many ways, Square is better than Hideo Kojima, who seems determined to run Metal Gear into the ground so he does not have to make any more games in the series...
C.T.
Posted by: cxt217 at September 02, 2010 04:26 PM (D8wum)
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I actually enjoyed 11 a lot. It was profoundly player-unfriendly, but it had a nice design aesthetic. I ended up in a lot of Japanese parties (mostly people who were desperate enough for a tank that they were willing to put up with a paladin with only token comprehension of romaji; I doubt I'd have gotten in nearly as many parties as a damage-dealing class.)
For real mind-bogglers, FFX got a direct sequel, FFX-2...
Posted by: Avatar_exADV at September 02, 2010 04:50 PM (pWQz4)
10
Yeah, and you're only talking about the numbered games. Â I'm going to go out on a limb and say there's been at least 30 Final Fantasy games (if you count handheld games and spinoffs). Â And I've only ever played one!
Posted by: Mark at September 02, 2010 05:32 PM (1y5ce)
11
I would tend to argue their biggest problem lately is not "running the series into the ground"; given that the games only have token relationships with each other, its more a style than a continuing story.
Lately they've just been spending too much time and too much money on each game, with *waaay* too much Executive Meddling.
Posted by: metaphysician at September 02, 2010 06:08 PM (OLeXB)
12
I had always been under the impression that the series overall was sword&sorcery, in one form or another. Which is why I was rather surprised when I watched the "Final Fantasy: The Beast Within" movie. It was SF.
Was it based on one of the games, or distantly related to one of them?
Posted by: Steven Den Beste at September 02, 2010 06:47 PM (+rSRq)
13
Actually, from pretty much the beginning, Final Fantasy has been mostly what they call "magitek..." the sort of technology would develop if a) magic actually existed, and b) there were scientists and engineers studying it and harnessing it to perform a variety of tasks ranging from mundane to world-shattering. For example, most of the kingdoms generally don't develop gunpowder because magic can not only cause more damage over a wider area, but also can heal it (and do both at the same time to negate friendly fire). It always has rules, and often loads of limits that make the majority of people use firearms and vehicles anyhow, and probably most importantly, the magic is never really explained completely, because it really doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you look at it too closely. Rule of Cool overrides Laws of Thermodynamics pretty much through the whole series.
Posted by: Tatterdemalian at September 02, 2010 08:01 PM (4njWT)
14
Oh, and jokes about the "Final Fantasy" name are almost as old as the name itself. I think it was about fifteen years ago when the late, lamented gaming mag PC Accelerator started making cracks about it... "How can there be seven final fantasies? Just call it 'Another F---ing Fantasy' already."Â
Posted by: Tatterdemalian at September 02, 2010 08:10 PM (4njWT)
15
SDB: It varies widely. Some Final Fantasy settings are your standard high fantasy milieu, just with the odd touch like airships. Others are pretty much sci fi, just with Functional Magic. Most are in between- high fantasy + steampunk.
Posted by: metaphysician at September 02, 2010 08:34 PM (OLeXB)
16
Having only played the first game, I'm not positive, but it's my understanding that the games are all pretty much stand-alone. I'm sure there are some games (especially the spinoffs and alternate versions) that are related or take place in the same setting, but again, my understanding is that most of the games are completely independent. As such, some of the games seem to have a more futuristic setting than others. The original was much more of a sword & sorcery type of game, but I know the newer ones have a futuristic bent.
Posted by: Mark at September 03, 2010 11:44 AM (aUPJJ)
17
Pretty much. With the exception of one or two proper sequels amongst the spin-offs, every game is its own world ( or near enough not to matter ).
( that is, there is the occasional hinted at relation between one game and another, but even in the more definite cases, the games are set in eras so distant as to render it effectively an easter egg )
Posted by: metaphysician at September 03, 2010 11:48 AM (OLeXB)
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